RANT - this is incredible.

[moon]

Ok, I'm a teacher. I deal with unmotivated students every day and know how it is. It's a pain in the ***. My son is lazy. I own that. But here is the exchange between me and his AP Comp Sci teacher over the past few weeks. The original email from me was at the end of the first marking period when I saw that he had an "E" in her class and was asking for make up work. I've switched up the order of emails so you can just read from top to bottom:

First email from me:

Ms. Raszewski,
I see that my son, Shane, currently has an "E" in your class. He has told me that he got makeup work from you and will be able to turn it in on Friday in order to bring up his grade.


Response from her:

I talked with Shane about this a few weeks ago. I am very disappointed that he did not make the effort earlier. Puts me in a tight situation to wait until the very last day. He can improve by staying on top of assignments and making a consistent effort each day. I do believe he has the abiltiy and a even a talent for computer science. Consistent effort and attention to detail are needed.


From me:

I'm disappointed too. I know that Shane is essentially lazy when it comes to keeping up with his school work. It's certainly not an issue of not being able to do the work. I appreciate that you are allowing him to make things up so late. Believe me, I know what kind of a hassle late work is. Particularly the work that all comes in on the last day of the marking period.

Thank you again, and I will try to keep on top of him more, but am also trying to make him take responsibility himself, as that's what life is about and he'll have to do so soon enough with everything else.


From her:


I agree. It is a real good idea to get him to take on these responsibilities for himself.

Shane turned in 2 things signed by you today. It does not quite look like an English teacher's signature.... Did you sign for 2 activities that he was supposed to share with you? One was to set up Java at home. The other was a game he was supposed to play that involved velocity and angles. He was to show you and explain how that applied to what we were working on in school.


From me:

Ms. Raszewski,
I see Shane still has an E for the first marking period. Did he not make up enough for a passing grade?



From her:

Hi Mrs. Grogan,

Please see the note below. I had sent you this note on Oct 29. I did not get your response. I was waiting for confirmation from you. Since I didn't hear back, I assumed the worst: you had not seen the them.

Ok. I just looked over the papers he turned in again. One of them- the one to show that he had set up Java at home- obviously was not printed from home as it had a 7:13 am time stamp on it. I think he may have forged your signature on it.

Unfortunately, Shane continues with lack of effort. He did not have his homework assignment today. We will have a quiz on that material on Friday. He also was at a website rather than working on his lab assignment today, violating the computer ethics policy. Please talk with him about this.

Two things he must have complete by the beginning of next class. The handwritten Purse class and the handwritten Game class. Can you check that he gets these done?

THanks,
Mrs. Raszewski


From me:

Ms. Raszewski,

Regarding the note below, I am a single mother of three; my mother, who has Parkinson's Disease, lives with us. We all have very busy schedules, and I sign many things - sometimes my signature isn't as neat as it could be, but I'm not sure what you mean by "it didn't look like an English teacher's signature."

Please explain to me how you can not give credit for make up work that I requested, my son completed and handed in, based on what you considered a questionable signature. If my son turns something in I would think you would assume the BEST, not the WORST, as you put it, and I expect for him to receive credit for it. On both our parts I feel that we agree that Shane needs to take responsibility for his own work, and not rely on me or you to maintain his grades, and doesn't relying on a parent to sign something put the grade in my hands rather than his? It seems like a relatively elementary practice for a senior in an AP Comp Sci class.

I'm not saying that Shane has been putting in the effort that he needs to put in, but I do expect him to get credit for the things he does and turns in. Also, I expect that he will be given the opportunity to complete all assignments. I understand that the homework you say he didn't turn in yesterday was never given to him or select others because you stated you "did not expect" them to do it. This is not only unfair to my son and others, but sets him up for failure in taking responsibility for his work, and again, assumes the worst.

He will not be on any websites that are not authorized in the future, and I have taken away privileges at home. He will complete the assignments that are due on Friday, and I expect you will allow him to complete the homework assignment that he and others were denied.

As I said, Shane is learning to accept responsibility for his actions, and he will have to face the consequences for those actions, but I feel that we should all expect the BEST from Shane and not the worst as that appears to be counterproductive.


And finally, this, from her:


Unbelievable. Nice nastygram.

 

[eroomlorac]

Seriously? Her last email to you was

"Unbelievable. Nice nastygram."???? :hair:

 

[moon]

Ayup.

I feel like she meant to hit "forward" and send to a friend, but accidentally hit "reply all" instead. Unfortunately for her, her principal was cc'd on that as well.

 

[ChilliPepper]

OK, I am sorry, but if you don't let your kid fall flat on his face, all on his own, he will never be a stand up adult. Want to know how I know? Because I married one. His mother always did stuff for him, always made excuses for him, and now, he is the laziest person I know. Instead of whining to his teacher about his grades, let him flunk the dang course. if he doesn't get into the college of his choice because he screwed up, then maybe he will learn that there are more serious consequences than mommy taking away privileges.
Sorry for my rant- and yes, the teacher's last comment was inappropriate.

 

[lauralynne]

My mother is a teacher as well. What grade is your son in? AP classes make me think high school...but it's been a while since I was in school myself.

I understand where you're coming from, and there are things she did not make clear. However, I see some things that should've been addressed on your part as well.

Response from her:

I talked with Shane about this a few weeks ago. I am very disappointed that he did not make the effort earlier. Puts me in a tight situation to wait until the very last day. He can improve by staying on top of assignments and making a consistent effort each day. I do believe he has the abiltiy and a even a talent for computer science. Consistent effort and attention to detail are needed.

If she set the dealine on when he could turn the assignments in, it shouldn't matter, nor should she say, that it puts her in a tight situation.

From her:


I agree. It is a real good idea to get him to take on these responsibilities for himself.

Shane turned in 2 things signed by you today. It does not quite look like an English teacher's signature.... Did you sign for 2 activities that he was supposed to share with you? One was to set up Java at home. The other was a game he was supposed to play that involved velocity and angles. He was to show you and explain how that applied to what we were working on in school.


From me:

Ms. Raszewski,
I see Shane still has an E for the first marking period. Did he not make up enough for a passing grade?


From her:

Hi Mrs. Grogan,

Please see the note below. I had sent you this note on Oct 29. I did not get your response. I was waiting for confirmation from you. Since I didn't hear back, I assumed the worst: you had not seen the them.

Ok. I just looked over the papers he turned in again. One of them- the one to show that he had set up Java at home- obviously was not printed from home as it had a 7:13 am time stamp on it. I think he may have forged your signature on it.

Unfortunately, Shane continues with lack of effort. He did not have his homework assignment today. We will have a quiz on that material on Friday. He also was at a website rather than working on his lab assignment today, violating the computer ethics policy. Please talk with him about this.

Two things he must have complete by the beginning of next class. The handwritten Purse class and the handwritten Game class. Can you check that he gets these done?

THanks,
Mrs. Raszewski

She asked you if you had signed the papers. You never replied. Regardless of her comment of it "not looking like an English teacher's signature is besides the point. This falls back on you not communicating or giving her the answer to her question.

From me:

Ms. Raszewski,

Regarding the note below, I am a single mother of three; my mother, who has Parkinson's Disease, lives with us. We all have very busy schedules, and I sign many things - sometimes my signature isn't as neat as it could be, but I'm not sure what you mean by "it didn't look like an English teacher's signature."

Please explain to me how you can not give credit for make up work that I requested, my son completed and handed in, based on what you considered a questionable signature. If my son turns something in I would think you would assume the BEST, not the WORST, as you put it, and I expect for him to receive credit for it. On both our parts I feel that we agree that Shane needs to take responsibility for his own work, and not rely on me or you to maintain his grades, and doesn't relying on a parent to sign something put the grade in my hands rather than his? It seems like a relatively elementary practice for a senior in an AP Comp Sci class.

I'm not saying that Shane has been putting in the effort that he needs to put in, but I do expect him to get credit for the things he does and turns in. Also, I expect that he will be given the opportunity to complete all assignments. I understand that the homework you say he didn't turn in yesterday was never given to him or select others because you stated you "did not expect" them to do it. This is not only unfair to my son and others, but sets him up for failure in taking responsibility for his work, and again, assumes the worst.

He will not be on any websites that are not authorized in the future, and I have taken away privileges at home. He will complete the assignments that are due on Friday, and I expect you will allow him to complete the homework assignment that he and others were denied.

As I said, Shane is learning to accept responsibility for his actions, and he will have to face the consequences for those actions, but I feel that we should all expect the BEST from Shane and not the worst as that appears to be counterproductive.

To me, the story of your family sounds like a desperate plea. Please don't take that the wrong way, I know it has to be tough. I'm just putting it in the context of the conversation you're having with the teacher. You still never say whether you did or did not sign the papers.

You say Shane is learning to accept responsibility, but the teacher is saying that NOTHING has improved in her classroom. He continued to violate rules.

It was wrong of her, if she did indeed not give select individuals the homework that she gave the rest of the class. And her last email was out of line...both of which I'd take to the principal. I think a meeting with you, your son, the teacher, and the principal is in order to establish guidelines and concrete terms of what is expected.

 

[moon]

Wow. I think you misunderstand. I am not at all making excuses for my son. If he doesn't do the work, he fails. Period. The problem is that he DID the work, and she is completely unprofessional in her dealing with the students and particularly with the parents.

And the last thing I would do is make a desperate plea. Ever.

 

[~SG~]

I think some disciplinary action should be taken against the teacher!
It seems to me she wants him to fail and that was before I read the last email!!

 

[VolunteerChin22]

I used to be a TA and if she let him do make up work then he should get credit. Letting him do that was completely at her discretion and she should honor that. I agree that the signature thing was a little juvenile for a senior about to be released into the real world - that doesn't happen in college or on the job, so it's not a good prepartory tactic. I also saw you didn't reply to her question so the whole signature acceptance thing might have just been a miscommunication between both parties.

So just to clarify - the teacher hand picked kids to give "yesterday's homework" to? That's completely unethical if that's true, and frankly if I was one of the kids who always did my assignments I would be really ticked off. I think it may be time for a meeting with you, the teacher and the principal IMO if that is the case.

Maybe it's because I taught college level but I don't think asking you to make sure he gets those assignments done is productive. I don't think asking you to stand over him to make sure he does it is a solution. He needs to be responsible for that and perhaps she needs to have a discussion with him to find out why he seems to care so little about his grade. If he isn't motivated to do the assignments maybe he doesnt understand or they are boring. Maybe he needs more consequences at home. Idk.

Her last comment was definately a lesson in reply to all no no's.

 

[Ash]

Ditto what SG said, it does seem like she wants him to fail already. However, she did address the at home assignments twice, and you didn't give her a straight answer. Instead you went into a bit of a rant, and that may be where she's assuming that he didn't actually do the assignments.

 

[alli713]

I guess I just don't get it. In my experience, albeit I never had issues in school, most teachers want their students to pass, and don't act maliciously for no reason.

If it were my kid, and it's not, I would have left it between the teacher and student. Assuming he's in high school he should be old enough to understand his actions and their consequences.

Sure, the last email was out of line, but I think at the beginning she doesn't seem like she's really out to get your son. That wouldn't make any sense. What would a teacher gain by trying to fail a kid?

And I can see how she would question if you did sign something as you never said that you did, you kind of tip-toed around the question.

 

[~SG~]

I'm not sure but I think there was a few days between the email about the signatures and her reply. If the teacher didn't get a reply I don't think "I assumed the worst" was the best way to go. Why not pick up a phone and call the parent before failing a kid who did what he was told?

Some teachers are in it for the money and they don't care if a kid passes or fails. In some areas they need more teachers then they have and there is a job security of sorts there. The days of all teachers being in it for the love of children are gone. These days you have some that are just there for a paycheck.

 

[alli713]

Well, if they're in it for the money, they must have been there for a while, generally teachers starting out don't make a whole lot. I know, we have many teachers in our family.

Sorry, I still stand by my comments.

 

[~SG~]

I have teachers in my family too, they complain about the teachers that don't care because the good teachers have to deal with their slack when they get kids that haven't been taught properly in former grades.

I'd also add that the teachers here make a heck of a lot more then the mill workers and get to do it a nice cozy class room

 

[mishellyshel]

aside from all the back & forth.........it is completely unprofessional to send out that last response. and my concern would be that she now has a more than tainted feeling towards shane and she can do 1 of 2 things: take it out on him OR make it right.

my son is only in 4th grade, but when his 3rd grade teacher spoke to me in a way that made me feel uncomfortable, i forwarded the email to the guidance counselor and made her get involved. that teacher did end up apologizing to me at the end of the year and bent over backwards to help my son. not sure if it was out of guilt or genuine interest but we are happy 3rd grade is over!

i think at this point, with the inflamed feelings, you may want to have a conference to clear the air OR suggest a meeting with you, your son & the teacher to make sure expectations from all parties are discussed and guidelines can be set. good luck!

 

[AZChins]

I think she was rude and extremely unprofessional. She acts as though she doesn't read other people's emails completely before she responds.

Her saying that your signature didn't look like your signature was weird. She should have called or made more of an attempt if she was so concerned about it...but I don't know what people do nowadays about things.

I really hate emails. Phone calls usually are so much more civil because it doesn't feel so anonymous. But, hey, everyone emails and texts and doesn't care much about anyone else anymore, as disgusting as it is.

 

[Becky]

She indicates that the one paper that was to be done at home had a time stamp that morning, after he would already have been at school. I can understand her concern about the signature on it.

I know that you are listening to your son, but I would bet money that you are only getting part of the story. I get that you want him to take responsibility for himself, but he doesn't seem able to do that yet. That's where tough love comes into play, IMO.

The only way to get the real story is to set up an appointment and go in and meet with her. That way everyone is on the same page.

Let me also say that anyone that thinks teachers are in it for the money (or the summers off) is crazy! I am a teacher in my 31st year of teaching and my brother the engineer makes a lot more than I do. He has almost a college degree and I have more than 6 years of college, with 2 degrees. He is in his 15th year of working. We are supposed to have the summers off, but many teachers work summer jobs. Teachers today are also required to take college classes (at their own expense in my district) as long as they are working. This last summer I took a couple of weeks off in July and worked part time (and sometimes more than full time) the rest of the summer. I love my job, but not many can handle what we handle.

 

[starleomach]

Perfecty put.

She indicates that the one paper that was to be done at home had a time stamp that morning, after he would already have been at school. I can understand her concern about the signature on it.

I know that you are listening to your son, but I would bet money that you are only getting part of the story. I get that you want him to take responsibility for himself, but he doesn't seem able to do that yet. That's where tough love comes into play, IMO.

The only way to get the real story is to set up an appointment and go in and meet with her. That way everyone is on the same page.

Let me also say that anyone that thinks teachers are in it for the money (or the summers off) is crazy! I am a teacher in my 31st year of teaching and my brother the engineer makes a lot more than I do. He has almost a college degree and I have more than 6 years of college, with 2 degrees. He is in his 15th year of working. We are supposed to have the summers off, but many teachers work summer jobs. Teachers today are also required to take college classes (at their own expense in my district) as long as they are working. This last summer I took a couple of weeks off in July and worked part time (and sometimes more than full time) the rest of the summer. I love my job, but not many can handle what we handle.

 

[chinchillalover0927]

i agree , besides all points! a conference involving the principle on her last email needs to be done...that was not proffessional for a teacher, she should have replied back and said something way more appropriate, if anything asking that you maybe contact the principle for further action or something??

 

[Melissa]

What I dont understand is why he work wasnt done in the first place. The only time we got "make up" work was if we were sick and had a doctors note. A call/note from the parents wasnt enough.

I think the teacher is being more than nice enough to allow make up work to be done even though he was in class and just decided not to do them. When I was in school if you didnt do it just because you got a zero. End of conversation.

The last email however was out of line. Regardless if she sent it to you or meant to send it to someone else she was out of line.

 

[Essentia]

I think the teacher is being more than nice enough to allow make up work to be done even though he was in class and just decided not to do them. When I was in school if you didnt do it just because you got a zero. End of conversation

So very true.

As for the last email I think it was completely uncalled for and definitely shouldn't have been sent, but up to that I feel like she had very valid points and was being very generous by even offering him make up work.