Violephire

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mark miller

mark miller

Miller Chinchillas
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
249
Location
Seward, Nebraska
A few years ago I was looking at a chinchilla breeding chart for mutations and came across a listing for violephires. It listed them simply as a violet/sapphire cross. It intriged me so I started a thread to find out if anyone was breeding for them or had ever raised one. It turned into a heated debate topic with many people giving their opinions. I mated sapphire to violet and got only standard double carriers of both genes. I was in the process of mating the double carriers together when we sold out our herd. So, I wasn't able to complete my experiment and produce a violephire. I had proposed to all the other breeders back then to attempt to produce one also and wondered if anyone had success and could finally answer the question of whether or not it's possible and exactly how it is produced. Is it a once in awhile anomaly that pops up from a violet to sapphire breeding, or do you have to have double carriers mated together to produce one, or is it impossible all together? If it's been produced successfully, what is the percentage of offspring that come out violephires, and do they look more like violets or sapphires or something all together different?
 
I know Rhonda is breeding Viophires. She would probably be the one who would be able to answer the questions.
 
Ronda wasn't breeding for it, it just showed up out of some of Carole Kessler's animals.

Haven't had any successful double carrier pairings, only line pairings. I know she's still in the process of outcrossing to see what makes it tick so to speak.

In the process there's been a few snafu's - like some colors not throwing true with each other and proving to be different strains.

It's been a controversial topic on the forum in the past so not discussed much.
 
I'd love to see a photo. I know at one time there was a photo around, but it was dark and poor quality, I believe from the UK?

Is it possible that what Rhonda is working with is different than the said "violphire" or that it's possible that it's not a cross between a violet and a sapphire at all as much as a freak thing that happened from too much mutation in the pot?
 
Violephires are called in Finland as blue diamonds, the same name is used around Europe.
I've seen couple of them, they are indeed weak mutation but there are some breeders in Europe who work with them and they have done a great progress with the colour and it is growing stronger. I have a pair of violet sc witch I hope to have kits one day but I'm not too hopefull about having blue diamonds.
Here's a pic of a 2½ months old blue diamond, first that I saw live and first one to born in Finland. The picture is about 3 years (or four?) old.
KingisBlueLovebluediamond.jpg
 
Interesting... I thought it would be a prettier color for lack of other word, lol. I know color can be hard to capture in photos, but it looks very beigey to me. Interesting. Thanks very much for posting that!
 
that one looks more like a very light violet to me, like it has more violet influence than sapphire. I read on a site, I think it was happychin.nl, and it said that there was 1 in 16 chances to get a blue diamond from two standards violet and sapphire carrier, so I guess it would take quite a while to get one of those from that pairing!
 
I can see who someone might say it looks like a violet, and it might be a difference in monitors, but I wouldn't call that color blue enough to be a good violet, I'd say it looks more like a blue tinted beige from what I see on my screen.

I guess with something called a blue diamond I'd expect it to be really, really blue.
 
Is there any proof that the animals in question actually display both genes? When mated do they throw both the violet and sapphire offspring?

Has anyone crossed a said viophire to a pure standard animal to create a Standard VC/SC and then cross it back to a violet animal and a sapphire animal to see that it did infact produce a violet with the violet and a sapphire with the sapphire?
 
My avatar is one of Ronda's "blue diamonds" or Viophire or whatever. Larger versions can be seen on my site here, it is really a stunning color in person.

The one Viw posted just looks casty. You have to use absolutely clear animals, it is getting so hard to find light standards these days.
 
I don't see the draw to breeding them, bot violets and sapphires need so much work. And the sad thing is most (not all ) but most people working with them here in the US seem to be doing it the wrong way for the wrong reasons. I know of two breeders and I use that term very loosly near me that want to produce them.....it is very sad as the violets and sapphires they are using...it is a sad sight
 
It's very difficult to work a double recessive, let alone one with quality.
I applaud those who can recognize the difference.

As for the ones who are throwing the carriers together...well...different people, different goals.
 
This is a question that has interested me and eventually I would like to try producing a violephire or two, but I decided to first work on improving the quality of my sapphires first. The way that I would go about breeding the cross and determining for sure what you have would be to cross a sapphire to a violet. This will produce standard animals that carry both sapphire and violet so abbreviate them std sc/vc. Cross two std sc/vc animals, preferably unrelated together. Any sapphires that are produced would be crossed with a violet to test whether or not the sapphire also carries the violet gene. Any violets produced from the first carrier pair would be crossed with a sapphire to test whether the violets carry the sapphire gene. Ideally to get the best chance of getting a violephire you would have a sapphire that carries violet and a violet that carries sapphire to cross together. Any potential violephire would be crossed with both a sapphire and a violet to verify the genetic makeup. A true violephire when bred to a violet will produce 100% violet and when bred to a sapphire will produce 100% sapphire. If you get anything else then the animal was not a true violephire, assuming that violephire is really just a straight cross between sapphire and violet. As you can see to do it right and verify for sure what you have it would take a number of animals and a number of generations. It is not a task to take on lightly and to expect immediate results.
 
I guess I'm not clear on exactly how does a "blue diamond" come about? Spoof's site says:


In theory this is the result of both violet and sapphire. There are two names used in association with it; one is Viophire, the other is Blue Diamond. Now I've been told a "real" Blue Diamond is the result of a mixture of violet, sapphire, and a recessive beige of some sort. These started showing up at Ronda's Chinchillas in June 2006. They are out of a herd Ronda has no history on, and are a very unique color.
Click to expand...

Does started showing up mean they came out of a standard pair? Or a violet sapphire pair or came in under the doors or left in boxes? When I hear "started showing up" it makes me assume it was not an expected result. If someone was trying to cross sapphires with violets, which I have no idea why, they would be doing it to probably try to produce something, or possibly just produce very low quality chins maybe?

Does anyone know how the genes work?
 
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