Really wishing I would have known...

[tristanichole]

As some of you know, I just lost my 9 month old chinchilla, Finnley. My vet called me today and let me know what she found when she did his necro on Saturday. He was, indeed, obstructed. The obstruction was a large, hard mass of poop. He had a build up of secum, probably from all of the fluids I was pushing...his xray also showed a lot of gas in his stomach.

All of this is obviously why he went into GI Stasis and passed away. I'm feeling incredibly awful, even though I know it isn't my fault...I did all I could...but I know that this was obviously painful, and that is what is really crushing me right now. She said that the only way we would have been able to fight this was surgery, which was not an option for him in his condition.

Anyways, she said that the new recommendations for feeding are now an almost complete diet of hay, some pellets, and greens. I know that some of you don't agree with the greens part. The reason for the title of this thread is because I didn't know about this...and it wasn't until after he passed away that I saw the thread on here from Tunes and Angela. Obviously, I'll be switching things up for my other chins, but I just wish I would have known about this. I did see though, that 10 months is a good age to start...he was only 9...

Basically I think I was in a lose-lose situation here...he was not exactly old enough to start this diet anyways, but I just wish I would have been on here a little more and been more informed of the "new ways"...

:cry3:

 

[alli713]

My girls, and I know many other owner's chins, are on unlimited hay and generally pellets free fed as well. I'm not sure why limiting his pellets and feeding greens would prevent an obstruction? Did she say why she felt feeding like this would have prevented this?
I haven't had an issue yet and have been feeding this way for the time I've owned my chins..

 

[mishellyshel]

This is what my vet also recommended and I was a little apprehensive about this approach as most of the people on this forum are highly against it.
A couple weeks ago before I started handfeeding him he wasnt eating, so i thought I would try out the "fresh greens"..........he wouldnt even go near it.
the recommendation is for about 1 TB of fresh greens per pound of chin (since most chins are under a pound, it would be about 1/2 TB, so I figure it is best to start with 1/8 or 1/4 TB which really isnt much.
i feed my boys pellets & fresh hay with the more than occasional pinch of oats and a shreded wheat several times a week and/or a cheerio.
of course my sick baby gets his pellet/babyfood/lifeline/dyne mix 3 times a day by syringe
i think you did everything you could have done.........don't be so hard on yourself.

 

[tristanichole]

The obstruction was a ball of hard poop, it was extremely stuck together.

ETA: I know I did all I could for him - I just miss him terribly and wish he was here is all

 

[AZChins]

Pellets are mostly alfalfa hay. I don't know if giving just hay is going to be much different.

There are so many things that could have gone wrong in the intestinal tract of this little chinchilla. The gas could have kept gut motility to an absolute minimum, the gas could have been caused by any number of things. I don't know if anyone could say for sure that the gas caused the blockage or if the blockage caused the gas.

I would be really, really careful with fresh greens. It would need to be such a tiny amount so that it wouldn't cause gas and problems with diarrhea.

 

[tristanichole]

The blockage was caused by the compaction of feces. The gas was probably from everything just being at such a stand still.

 

[mishellyshel]

did the dr explain how that happens? or does anyone here know how poop would compact like that?

 

[AZChins]

The intestines just stop moving as they should. Many times I've seen it happen from the chins getting bloated. Sometimes something will actually cause a blockage like a little piece of wood, a piece of plastic or something else just gets lodged in there. Everything in the intestines just stops moving at a certain point, it seems, and all the fecal matter just forms a large ball right at the point of blockage.

I had a vet tell me that he thought that a little chinchilla was overeating when he had a slight blockage. Another time a customer had a chin eat just a little cellophane and that caused just enough of an obstruction. Yet another customer lost her chin to an obstruction because she stored a hard plastic carrier on top of the cage. Her chin swallowed a fairly large piece that he nibbled off of it. Gas in the intestines can cause it to happen, even sudden changes in diet can cause it. Then there are the times where no one can figure out what started the gas or what started a blockage - almost like a little chin's intestines just stopped working out of nowhere.

 

[tristanichole]

Mishellyshel - he apparently wasn't eating enough fibrous food =(

There was nothing in the cage that could have blocked him up, and my vet broke apart the block of fecal matter and said all it was, was just that...fecal matter stuck together.

 

[mishellyshel]

sorry to keep asking questions...........but if a chin has this problem and was given motility drugs would that help it pass OR is surgery the only option? or do you try the motility drugs first and then see what happens. and i assume the first sign of an obstruction would be not passing any stools?? once again sorry for the questions.......i am just trying to get information for the future of my chins and not questioning the care that was given as i know she did everythign she could. i just get SO nervous with my one boy being hand fed, that any little thing that "could" happen, i want to know the first course of action........

 

[mishellyshel]

hmmm......he was eating pellets & hay right? that is what everyone else feeds their chins. and the dr just recommended a green diet.
it must have been one of those situations that his system just stopped working, especially with all the stuff you were handfeeding, it should have pushed it right out.
im really sorry for your loss.

 

[tristanichole]

No! Motility drugs with an obstruction will kill the chinchilla. Surgery is the only option, but by the time they need surgery, they are usually in such a bad state, that it isn't an option. You have to do xrays first to see if you can see an obstruction, if the vet feels that there is one, motility drugs are usually not tried due to danger. Not passing stool can be due to a few things, not just an obstruction...but things like constipation. I tried Papain (a papaya extract) to see if he was highly constipated and tried to break up any fecal matter that may have been stuck together, but his obstruction of fecal matter was way too hard.

 

[aznmexaggie]

I was following your other thread and really hoping your little guy would pull through. I'm sorry he didn't make it - you did all that you could to help.

I'm curious though as to what kind of pellets he was given. My vet recommends Oxbow for pet chins over Mazuri, Kaytee, and other chinchilla feeds because it has higher fiber and is lower in protein and fats (which are richer and signal the G.I. tract to slow down, decreasing the rate of digestion). I'm just wondering if his pellets maybe had something to do with it (I'm sorry if this is a repeat question but I didn't see it in this thread).

I own over 40 chinchillas and have yet to have any of my chins pass away (with the exception of a couple stillborn or weak kits)... luckily my biggest problem so far has only been a manageable dental issue. My oldest chin is 9 years and my youngest... well, born today. All are on a simple diet of pellets, timothy hay, and timothy cubes, and I have never witnessed any G.I. issues at all other than some occasional soft poos when switching a new chinchilla over to new pellets. There are also others with many more chinchillas than I who also give this simple diet and have not had problems. I guess I'm just comfortable with sticking with a feeding method that is tried and true for me... I would feel very uncomfortable adding greens to the diet... while I don't think it is impossible to do, I think a very experienced (and smart) chinchilla owner would need to take the time to do so slowly and carefully. I do not feel that they are necessary at all though. Perhaps this was a fluke accident spurred by something that normally wouldn't cause any problems (who knows what - ingesting a piece of shavings or a chunk of a wooden ledge?) Unfortunately, something caused that buildup and there wasn't much else that you could do.

 

[tristanichole]

He was on Mazuri actually.

You are so lucky to have never had to deal with this...watching a chin die from this...it never leaves you. I had another Chin die from this, but it wasn't under the same circumstances. She wasn't obstructed, she just stopped eating and I was unaware of it. Yes, I keep watch over my chins, but she had lost a cage mate also...her daughter (for reasons that had nothing to do with eating habits), and the stress of it was entirely too much for her to deal with. I found her just as she was entering the worst stage. Only hours before she had been out playing with my other chins and appeared to be in fine health and was munching on pellets. Its just amazing how fast this can hit and kill and I don't wish it on ANYONE.

 

[aznmexaggie]

Yes, I have been lucky thus far with healthy chinnies. I am always prepared though in the event this or any G.I. issues happen. Acidophilus, simethicone, Critical Care, handfeeding syringes, activated charcoal... I keep these things on hand just in case I notice anything different in their poos. Stasis is tough though... from what I've read and of the experiences of those who have dealt with it, it seems once the chin is in stasis, it is very difficult to get the gut moving again. And if you're dealing with an obstruction, well, it has to be removed somehow or it just isn't possible for the gut to do its work.

I'm very sorry again about little Finnley. The entire chin community has him in their thoughts.

 

[tristanichole]

I had CC, Acidophilus, semithicone, b-complex, and papain here and then the antibiotic and pain meds from the vet. Poor guy though, nothing was going to move that but surgery.

Thanks so much Sumiko, we're all working through it here. And I'm sorry, I don't remember who it was from my other thread, but they said the told their Chinny what happened and she believed he understood. Well today I went to visit with my Boo and I sat there and rubbed behind his ears and I told him that Finn did everything he could to be strong and that I tried really hard for him, but I had to tell him to let go - and that I never would have taken him from him on purpose. I think he did understand because he looked right at me the entire time I was talking to him and I gave him a pet on the head and he turned around, went to the blanket that Finn slept on all the time, and went to sleep. =(

p.s. the material in the cage is all fleece. And I did check to see if ANYTHING had been chewed and nothing was...and as my vet said, there was nothing in the feces, but feces.

 

[Laurie]

I understand completely that vets go to school and can be very knowledgeable. But I find it hard to believe there is such a thing as chinchilla specialist vet. But we do have chinchilla specialist ranchers and breeders and I haven't heard from any of them to feed mostly hay and fresh greens. Pellet are hay, just compacted, we feed alfalfa pellets and then timothy hay. I've even heard a lot of ranchers feed more pellets than hay.
I just don't trust a vet the way I trust the advice from the ranchers and breeders here. My chins will continue to get Nutrena Rabbit Feed pellets and timothy hay, no sweet treats such as raisins or craisins and no fresh greens.

 

[6Dusters]

I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your little one. It would seem in this case there was nothing you could have changed.

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

I am sorry to say, that your vet was VERY wrong, he should have been put on Reglan and cisapride and gas drops (my vet recommended Mylanta). Since he was blocked, he should have had the Reglan shots. Also he should have been on fluids (sub q). Look at my thread 'Boy do I feel good' - you did everything you thought was right. Unfortunately your vet was/is wrong. You should NOT blame yourself

 

[ticklechin]

Obstruction in the cecum or stomach and using reglan can kill the chin, the OP is right. The mass will obstruct the exit to the intestines, you want the mass still and able to absorb fluids. You want to soften the mass with sub-q fluids first for a few days then use motility drugs, even then depending on size the survival rate is very low.