Pit Bulls?

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You may not know this, But if Pits are socialized with other dogs when they are young then they have a better chance of getting along with other dogs. NOT ALL PITS are dog aggressive. Its as simple as taking them to the park or the petstore to be socialized. Part of the reason why BSL Is after our beloved breed. Boxers aren't dog aggressive but BSL is still targeting them too and german shepherds, dobbies, huskys. Any dog can have dog aggression in them. It all depends on how much you socialize them. I've had American Bullys and American Pit Bull Terriers and none of them have been dog aggressive.
 
Taken directly from the UKC website, where American Pit Bull Terriers are considered a showable breed of dog:

Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.

Note: Although some level of dog aggression is characteristic of this breed, handlers will be expected to comply with UKC policy regarding dog temperament at UKC events.

Clear as day. Dog aggression is expected, considered characteristic however the dogs must be "in control" which is typical of the APBT breed.

It isn't as simple as "taking them to the park". Go to reputable pit bull websites, and they'll tell you a dog park is nowhere for a bully breed to be BECAUSE of their dog aggression. Yes getting them out and seeing as many dogs as possible is important. Yes, in a lot of cases it will help lower dog aggression. However i've seen dogs that have been around other dogs every day of their puppyhood and are still dog aggression when they fully mature. There are dogs who have been fought yet are loving and gentle with other dogs. Anyone getting into this breed needs to fully understand that while these dogs are typically GREAT with humans, they normally do NOT like other dogs.

Check out a few pit bull forums. Specifically http://www.pitbullforum.com

My dog has been to many places while he was growing up. He saw many dogs including families dogs, neighbors dogs, and dogs in his obedience class. He is still select-dog aggressive. Doesn't care for most male dogs. Nothing wrong with that. I take the proper precautions when we are near other dogs. HOWEVER when I got into this breed I knew that I may end up with a dog who doesn't like other dogs.

Not once in my post did I say all pit bulls are dog aggressive. You, however made it seem like all pit bulls are perfectly fine with other dogs and this is NOT true. Anyone looking at getting into this breed needs to fully understand they may NOT like other dogs. There are reasons why reputable breeders, rescues, and owners do not leave their dogs together when no one is home.
 
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My mother has owned, raised, bred, and shown pit bulls for 19 years and American Bullys for 2 years. Not to mention has educated a lot of people including me :) And students in classrooms. Regarding this breed the dos and don'ts, proper training, proper socilization, and all other aspects of care for these dogs. Maybe her 19 years of experience is the reason why we havn't had any issues with our dogs being dog aggressive! And its the only reason why I have learned to love this breed. and I'm trying to educate people about them too. I think I know alot more than most 18 year olds about this breed of dog and I continue to learn everyday. Which is why I'm doing a pit bull awareness walk next septmeber... Your more then welcome to come and get educated.
 
"Proper socialization" has nothing to do with whether a pit is or isn't dog aggressive. My parents have two pit bulls. Both have had the same upbringing, same socialization as puppies, same training. Same everything. Sabbath LOVES other dogs and wants nothing more than to make friends and is as submissive as the day is long. Sasha, on the other hand, hates any dogs except those she grew up with and lives with, and even has problems with them at times, and therefore can not be left alone with them, can not be fed around them, etc. Both dogs were brought home as puppies, so it's not like Sasha had a bad life before we got her. There is no fighting what-so-ever in Sasha's blood line, but she is still very much dog-aggressive, despite her upbringing and training. Sabbath, on the other hand, does have fighting in her blood (we learned this after purchasing her. Had we known before, we'd have never taken the risk).

So no, it does not have "everything" to do with proper socialization and lifestyle. These dogs can be and are dog aggressive. It doesn't make them bad dogs. Sasha is the SWEETEST dog ever and wants nothing more than to cuddle in your lap and give you kisses. But painting a false facade about the breed isn't going to help anyone.
 
I've never brought my dobermans to a dog park because there are people that do not understand "aggressive" rough and tumble dog play. I see all the time on my dobe board people venting about going to the dog park only to have people with "kinder..gentler breeds" (lol) complain their dobe (or pitty, or shepherd) is vicious and shouldn't be at the park. Often these worry worts make the situation worse and their nervousness is picked up by the dogs and a fight breaks out.

Just recently there was an incident of a beautiful husky...in a dog park mind you...running up to a german shepherd on leash and starting that rough play. Witnesses say the dog was clearly playing. The shepherd was getting spooked and not responding so the owner, an off duty police officer who thought his dog was going to die, pulled out his pistol and shot the husky dead. Gee...overreact much? The shepherd had no wounds on him and probably will never want to play, for sure, with another dog ever again. Couldn't he of waited until the owner of the husky could make it there to pull him away? The husky was a rescue and had already been through so much :(
 
Now thats wrong! But too everyone else, You may not understand what I'm trying to tell you. But I will fight for this breed until there's no more fight left in me. I don't expect you to understand anything that i'm saying. But I do know more than most 18 year olds about pits.... And I will try my best to educate people about them... The dog aggression and all other things are why BSL is after pits... And now they are even targeting boxers now. Don't be to suprised if they start targeting small dogs next.
 
the way i feel is that if you raise a dog right it will turn out right. if you raise a dog wrong they will turn out wrong. pit bulls have been known to turn on their owners however other dogs have been known to do this also. i dont feel it is fair to single out certain breeds and dogs because of a stereotype. my dad however feels that all pit bulls are evil and will turn on their owner at one point in another. theres no point arguing with him because in his head he is right, has always been right, and will always be right. i however have found a few pit bulls on the street and found their owners and know that they can be super sweet. the ones ive found have always came up to me and licked my face and walked with me willingly. i also love boxers. my neighbor had one and it was so much fun to play with and was just the sweetest thing. sadly they got lazy and wouldnt take it out enough and kept it locked in their garage so they gave her away. i think i was more sad then them lol. but like i said the way a dog behaves depends on how his/her owner raised them.
 
I love these dogs, All the pits I've been around including my own have been dog friendly I know this because we can have one of my dogs by their dogs and they just play. My grandpa thinks the same thing. But he won't say it to my mom. I like boxers too. I would never want to own a small dog! I LOVE MY PITS lol :) Wouldn't trade them for anything. My mom says right on! If they come from game bred/tight game bred lines then they are more likley to be dog to dog aggressive. But the majority of the aggressiveness depends on the owner. Belive it or not you can retrain a dog aggressive dog to be non aggressive it just takes time, paitience and knowledge. And YES I know what I'm talking about. We've done it plenty of times! :)
 
I love big and small dogs. ive known a lot of big dogs, i own a medium sized dog (beagle mix) shes our bigest dog and is soooo sweet. she will lay on your lap and act like shes a lap dog. shes also so well trained. she sits the instance you say something. you can point to where you want her to go and say "go" and she will to there. i also love small dogs. they have such strong personalities! we have 4 small dogs. one is a pekingese and she is sooo crazy! she will run around sometimes for no reason when you say something to her. she will also time her sneezes perfectly. you will bend down or pick her up to talk to her and she will sneeze right in your face! and you can tell from her expression that she thinks its hilarious. we also have a dachund. she is THE sweetest dog you will find. she never growls, snaps, or bites us or the other dogs. she will let you carry her around and loves to curl up in your lap. when she gets really deaply asleep you can play with her ears of lip and she wont even wake up. 4ed fvm ,m b v v v v v v v v v v v v that was her :) then we have 2 chihuahuas. one is maddy and she is so crazy i cant even describe it. shes very ackward. but she has the balance of a cat and is super fast. she is also a sweet girl and loves to cuddle- in her own way. she gets right under your chin and rubs against you like a cat. our other chihuahua is savannah and shes the devil dog. she will bite anyone but my mom and dad. she loves my dad. she also will go after the other dogs if they get on the same couch as her.
 
Milo, you seem hellbent on thinking that everyone here is trying to convince you that pit bulls are bad dogs, when nobody has said that. All anyone has said is that your statements are VERY misleading. Pit bulls CAN be dog aggressive, regardless of what you are trying to convince everyone of. It doesn't make them a bad dog, but it means that people need to be aware and ready when owning this breed that it can happen and need to be able to handle it appropriately.
 
Point blank I know how pit bulls are I own them. we have owned them for a very very long time. My facts are NOT misleading, My facts are about pit bulls I have owned. You are the one who keeps refering to ALL pit bulls being dog aggressive, I agree 100% that no one should own a pit bull if they don't have knowledge regarding the breed. My point OUR dogs are what we have made them. End of Discussion.
 
Point blank I know how pit bulls are I own them. we have owned them for a very very long time. My facts are NOT misleading, My facts are about pit bulls I have owned. You are the one who keeps refering to ALL pit bulls being dog aggressive, I agree 100% that no one should own a pit bull if they don't have knowledge regarding the breed. My point OUR dogs are what we have made them. End of Discussion.

I didn't say the all ARE I said they all CAN be. They all have that chance to be, and to say that they don't is just foolish. It is NOTHING to do with raising and everything to do with the dog itself. Did you not read my statement about our two pit bulls? They were both raised the EXACT same. The same socialization, the same training, the same EVERYTHING, and one is dog aggressive to strange dogs and one is not. Sasha was fine with other dogs until she turned a year old, and then decided she didn't like strange dogs anymore. Sabbath still wants to play with every dog she comes across, and will let puppies chew on her to their hearts' content.

There is a huge difference between responsible ownership and blind stupidity.
 
Yes, all dogs can be dog aggressive, but pit bulls were BRED to be so, which is where you come into the chance of the most well socialized, well trained, loving dog having the desire to rip another dog's throat out. It doesn't mean it is a bad dog, it means it has that in it's line somewhere. To tell people that pits aren't capable of this is a flat out lie.

It's just like saying a chow can't be dog aggressive is a lie, or that a Lab isn't bred to retrieve, or that a husky wasn't bred to pull sleds. These dogs were originally bred to FIGHT, and still have that in their genetics, and therefore in their capability, despite how far away you may breed from that fighting line. Do all show it? No, but they CAN and people need to be aware of that and not have false ideals.
 
Lets not forget that some pits are still bred to fight, then the owners end up selling the babies of the fighting dogs, then those dogs can be more aggressive than a normal pit bull.
 
Those puppies also get sold to unsuspecting people who breed them and keep that aggressiveness alive in the lines. It's a very real possibility when owning any pit bull, be it Am. Staff, Staff. APBT, etc, and to tell people otherwise is just irresponsible.
 
There is a huge difference between responsible ownership and blind stupidity

ASHLEY:

This is Milo's mother. As her mother the first thing I have to say to you is this: do you realize you are talking to a 18 year old WHO DOES KNOW ABOUT THE BREED- because I have educated her. She DOES NOT WALK around showing "Blind Stupidity" to put it in your own words! So I would advise you to watch what you say regarding her.

Now as a RESPONSIBLE Pit Bull and AMerican Bully Owner - who has owned, raised, bred, shown these dogs at dog shows through mutiple registries AND educated the general public who does walk around with "Blind Stupidity" regarding the Pit Bull breed I have this to say:

I have taken in and re-trained NUMEROUS pit bull that were rasied improperly by irresponsible owners and/or people who intentionally bough a pit bull from a tightly bred "game bred line" because they wanted a aggressive dog - because they thought it was cool! I have personally taken the time, patience and love needed and put the efforts into REVERSING the damage caused to these dogs by people who think they know it all and can own whatever breed they want! I HAVE SEEN FIRST HAND the results of ignorance by uncaring, uneducated people who became involved with pit bulls. You sit here and attempt to "down grade my child" because you feel your knowledge is correct and hers is not. She is speaking from her experiences with the dogs we have owned and the ones she has witnessed me retrain. Which is no different then you speaking from your own experiences with your pit bulls.

NOW let me educate you a little more: YES - dog aggrssion USED to be a highly sought after trait in the pit bull because generation after generation was tightly bred for dog fighting AKA "game dogs". Human aggression was a quality that was highly undesireable with the pit bull because owners needed to be able to break dog apart that were fighting in the rings. IF a dog ever showed a sign of human aggression they were put down immediately. NOW - over many years - the GAME QUALITIES in MANY BLOODLINES of the pit bull have been bred out-------by carefully breeding non dog aggressive dogs to reduce the genetic trait of high dog aggression. SO now there are "game bred lines" and other lines. The dogs from tight Game Bred lines WILL have higher tendancies to show dog aggression - because they were BRED FOR THAT TRAIT. Where as other bloodlines will NOT carry a high tendancy for the dog aggressive trait. SEE - it is NOT just that the breed is a pit bull - it has ALOT to do with how the dogs were bred and the lines they have come from. You will see ALOT of pit bull lines that have been being outcrossed from bloodline to bloodline to DECREASE dog aggression traits. I have been to more UKC and ABKC dog shows then I can count AND have probably only seen 5 dogs EVER that were dog aggressive towards other dogs in the rings - and those dogs were excused from the show by the judge - the dog aggressive TRAIT is NOT a desired trait int he show rings. THEREFORE - people LIKE me and my family who show our dogs - ARE VERY careful about what lines we bred - WE do not own a dog that has ANY game blood in their 7 generation pedigree. Technically -according to UKC and ABKC - the game blood lines are considered bred out of the dog when those lines are so far back in the dogs ancestry. AND before you try and run yor mouth - I will tell you up front : THERE IS NOT A PIT BULL OUT IN THE WORLD that does not originate from Game Bred Lines - because those lines are where the breed started.

SO YES - Dog aggression USED to be a trait seen ALL the time in this breed. Also - your statement that socializtion does not have anything to do with a pit bull being dog aggressive that it is the breed: YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN! SOCIALIZATION plays a HUGE ROLE IN a dogs tendencies toward other dogs. If you have 2 pit bulls BOTH from a strong game bred line - you PROPERLY socialize and train one of them - but you don't do the same with the other: YOU WILL HAVE ! DOG THAT WILL BE DOG AGGRESSIVE GUARUNTEED and the other will have learned proper social ediquitte regarding other animals. We ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT OUR DOGS BECOME! Each owner is responsible for what their dogs become.

I DO NOT think just anyone should own a pit bull. I think you need to be very educated about the breed in order to properly own one. YOu need to research the breeder or peron you are getting a pit bull from. You need to trackt he bloodlines behind the dog before you buy it. IF YOU don't know the pedigree and the lines involved with the dog - Don't buy it! IF you don't have a clue regarding what bloodlines are game lines and which are not - then don't buy a pitbull!

Knowledge is key when owning this breed. Personally I thin you need to have LEARNED EDUCATION from experience and research - NOT just copy and paste quotes from Pit Bull web sites or registry web sites in order to be considered RELLY EDUCATED and KNOWLEDGEABLE ENOUGH to determine whether someone else is involved in " responsible ownership or talking with blind stupidity".

Take the time to Really EDUCATE yourself and then attempt to give fact based, experienced based LECTURES to another 18 year old!

My final words to you are this: Don't speak that way to a 18 year old and treat her like she is ignorant or speaking out of blind stupidity unless you are willing to also deal with a VERY WELL VERSED ADULT involved with this breed. MY motto: If you can't hang with the big dogs - get the **** off the porch!
 
NOW let me educate you a little more: YES - dog aggrssion USED to be a highly sought after trait in the pit bull because generation after generation was tightly bred for dog fighting AKA "game dogs". Human aggression was a quality that was highly undesireable with the pit bull because owners needed to be able to break dog apart that were fighting in the rings. IF a dog ever showed a sign of human aggression they were put down immediately. NOW - over many years - the GAME QUALITIES in MANY BLOODLINES of the pit bull have been bred out-------by carefully breeding non dog aggressive dogs to reduce the genetic trait of high dog aggression. SO now there are "game bred lines" and other lines. The dogs from tight Game Bred lines WILL have higher tendancies to show dog aggression - because they were BRED FOR THAT TRAIT. Where as other bloodlines will NOT carry a high tendancy for the dog aggressive trait. SEE - it is NOT just that the breed is a pit bull - it has ALOT to do with how the dogs were bred and the lines they have come from. You will see ALOT of pit bull lines that have been being outcrossed from bloodline to bloodline to DECREASE dog aggression traits. I have been to more UKC and ABKC dog shows then I can count AND have probably only seen 5 dogs EVER that were dog aggressive towards other dogs in the rings - and those dogs were excused from the show by the judge - the dog aggressive TRAIT is NOT a desired trait int he show rings. THEREFORE - people LIKE me and my family who show our dogs - ARE VERY careful about what lines we bred - WE do not own a dog that has ANY game blood in their 7 generation pedigree. Technically -according to UKC and ABKC - the game blood lines are considered bred out of the dog when those lines are so far back in the dogs ancestry. AND before you try and run yor mouth - I will tell you up front : THERE IS NOT A PIT BULL OUT IN THE WORLD that does not originate from Game Bred Lines - because those lines are where the breed started.

SO YES - Dog aggression USED to be a trait seen ALL the time in this breed. Also - your statement that socializtion does not have anything to do with a pit bull being dog aggressive that it is the breed: YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN! SOCIALIZATION plays a HUGE ROLE IN a dogs tendencies toward other dogs. If you have 2 pit bulls BOTH from a strong game bred line - you PROPERLY socialize and train one of them - but you don't do the same with the other: YOU WILL HAVE ! DOG THAT WILL BE DOG AGGRESSIVE GUARUNTEED and the other will have learned proper social ediquitte regarding other animals. We ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT OUR DOGS BECOME! Each owner is responsible for what their dogs become.


Quoting yourself. Yes, the possibility is DECREASED but it is not eliminated. Telling people that there is NO chance of aggression is irresponsible, which is what your daughter is trying to claim. That there is 0% possibility of a pit bull being aggressive.

Also, that dog will know how it is SUPPOSED to behave, but that doesn't mean it does not hold dog aggression. It means it was taught how to properly control itself. There is a large difference in the two. Sasha, my parents pit who IS dog aggressive and has no fighting in her lines, knows how she is supposed to behave because when my parents noticed her aggression, she was taught how to handle it. Sabbath, who does have fighting in her lines, however, has no dog aggression, and has never shown a sign of having a mean bone in her body.

I'm 21. I've been around various dogs all my life. I was bitten by an American eskimo when I was 4. Does it make me hate dogs? No. Am I wary around that breed? Not any more so than any other breed of dog. I grew up with two pit bull/rotweiler/german shepherd mixes. They were the sweetest dogs ever, but they did have aggressive tendencies with each other, despite being raised together and being litter mates due to the pit in them.

Giving people a false sense of hope is not proper education of this breed. Telling people that if you do "A,B, and C" your dog is never going to want to attack another dog is irresponsible. As I've said. You can have the best trained and socialized pit bull, and it still want to rip another dog's throat out. It's something that every pit bull owner HAS to know and has to be prepared for, and can't be given a false sense of security about, just as if a person were to own a Chow. You can't breed the digging out of smaller terrier breeds, you can just re-direct the energy. You can't breed the wanting to run out of a Vizsla, but you can re-direct the energy.

People need to have a proper expectation of the breed they are getting into when they buy the breed and that is EVERY possibility of what can happen, which means they need to know that their Pit can decide to not like other dogs, or in the case of Megan's Gavin, it can decide to dislike SELECT dogs. You can't tell people that their pit is never going to have an aggressive moment. It is a possibility they need to be prepared for.


And, just for the record. Last time I checked, 18 did make you a legal adult... So I thought I already WAS dealing with a "well-versed adult"? :hmm:
 
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I thought you said
End of Discussion.
about 10 posts back...........
it is plainly obvious that we have different people with VERY different ideas here

please continue, I'm enjoying the show
popcorn.gif
 
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