Not playing nice

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nibblesmama

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Hi there! I am a relatively new chin owner. I've had Kimaya for about 18 months (5 yrs old) and Nibbles (6 yrs old) for 3 months. Kimaya is not a nice girl. She was never socialized and has a really bad habit - she sprays whenever someone comes to her cage or walks by her cage or thinks about walking by her cage. She just hates people. She was ignored in her last home, so I understand completely why she's afraid.
I've followed the advice on the 'net from Chin owners and I spend just 10-15 minutes of 1 on 1 with her a day and now she will let me near her without spraying me and will jump on my hand and give me kisses through the cage bars for a treat. This took about 8 months.
I got Nibbles 3 months ago. I was looking for a 5ft cage for Kimaya and found a cage and ended up with Nibbles with it. Nibbles is a sweet, cuddly, lovey sweetheart. She loves to sit on my lap while I watch TV, she is well behaved and extremely well socialized.
Introductions of the two have been touch and go. They play nice when loose. However, the wheel in Nibbles cage freaks Kimaya out. Everything in the cage is fine until Nibbles starts to run. I've tried leaving Kimaya in there alone so she can check it out on her own, but she won't go near it.
Now I have 2 cages, right next to each other and they will sleep next to each other through the bars, they will nibble back and forth at each other and the spraying between the cages has stopped.
Any advice for helping Kimaya be nicer? She jumped Nibbles 2 weeks ago and scratched her eyelid and we are dealing with a nasty infection. Does anyone have any advice on helping Kimaya accept Nibbles? Nibbles is more than ready for a cagemate (her last one died according to the prev owner).
Thanks!! :grouphug:
 
When you put Kimaya in Nibbles' cage how long do you leave her in there? I'm wondering because when I did one of my intros, I would switch cages for a day or two. When I first got my Chin Spin it took my boys about a week to figure it out. Now when one runs on it, he shakes the whole cage and the other could care less.

Just keep in mind that a chin in ANY new situation is going to take time and patience and if Kimaya is acting out it may take longer. Considering how long it took her to warm up to you, she may need more time to warm up to Nibbles. Also, try "neutralizing" the cage that you want the two of them to live in. Rearrange shelves & ledges, houses, feeding dishes...as if it's a totally new cage to both of them. The whisker trimming is a good idea and you could also try putting vanilla on their noses.

It may also turn out that Kimaya is better off living alone.
 
So far there has been great advice given, I 3rd the whisker trimming bit, it worked for me! Along with switching cages for a day or two at a time putting them both in the same cage, dabbing the nose with vanilla and whisker trimming. I would also like to suggest giving them dust to bath in together, in a large container of sorts. They will roll in each others scent this way. You could also try a small bowl of a couple crushed rosehips see if they nibble nicely together. I like promoting togetherness, thus the dust bathing and rosehips. I think it helps really.

Exploring a new cage together will take their minds off each other for a while buttt... they may run around cashing each other or perhaps try mounting each other in a new cage/setup to establish who rules the roost just make sure it doesn't get too out of hand. :)

And watch out 'cause for 4 months in a row they could be best buds, sleeping together peacfully and all, and then BAM! one of them has 2 wholes in his ear and the other has a bit of his ear hanging off and you'll be wondering.. "What the??" It happens... happened to me. Keep the second/spare cage just in case.
 
trim

OK this advice is awesome! They get along for about 15 minutes together, then Kimaya starts scrapping and I put her back in her cage. I'm totally OK if Kimaya has to remain alone, but I'm not going to give up just yet.
How far back to trim the whiskers? Do I trim both or just Little-Miss-Grumpy?
Nibbles can't bathe until her eye clears up, so as soon as she's not goopy, I'm going to do the bath thing.
 
nibblesmama said:
OK this advice is awesome! They get along for about 15 minutes together, then Kimaya starts scrapping and I put her back in her cage. I'm totally OK if Kimaya has to remain alone, but I'm not going to give up just yet.
How far back to trim the whiskers? Do I trim both or just Little-Miss-Grumpy?
Nibbles can't bathe until her eye clears up, so as soon as she's not goopy, I'm going to do the bath thing.
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You can trim the whiskers as short as you want...they will grow back. I cut my boys whiskers about 1 1/2 inches shorter than the non-aggressive chin. I would only trim Kimaya's whiskers since she is the more aggressive chin.

Also, if they get along the first 15 minutes or so together, then maybe separate them BEFORE they usually start fighting and then slowly increase their time together. New toys make a difference too...it keeps their mind on things other than fighting.

When I did my first intro, I cut crawl through holes in a bunch of cardboard boxes and put them together like a maze...they had a blast playing in it and I still use it for playtime.
 
I am surprised to see that I'm the first one mentioning the "smoosh". I've always had great luck with it. All you need is a fairly small, and short container of some sort. I use a little rubbermaid with clear bottom (and obviously with holes drilled into it so they can breathe). The container should be small enough that the chins have to be fairly close to eachother, as well as short enough that they cannot stand up to spray eachother. You'll have to watch them to make sure that no really bad fighting goes on while they are in the "smoosh", but your goal is to stress them out enough to bond together while on a short trip. I usually drive around the block a few times, or head to the store to buy one item, just a short maybe 10 min trip. This may not be the greatest plan while you are dealing with an infection, but when they are both healthy you may just find that the stress of the trip will be enough to bond them together. Again, they may be happy with eachother today and tomorrow, but they can turn on eachother. A large cage where they can get away from eachother helps, as well as multiple hidey boxes, and two food and water sources can stop quabbling too. Lastly, chins are kind of like us, sometimes we can live with people, and sometimes we just cannot. Once you get a good handle on their personalities you may just notice that they are just not compatible. It's always a toss up when you have multiple chins, because they each have their own personalities and sometimes they get along great, and sometimes they just don't. I wish you luck and let us know what ends up happening. - Jessica
 
Thanks so much guys! If the trim/vanilla thing doesn't work, I will try the smoosh!
 
Another thing to do with the smoosh, which I have tried, and works beautifully...
While you are smooshing them, which I usually do for 20 minutes, clean out the cage they will live in thoroughly, new bedding, wipe down all the shelves and walls. You want to eliminate the animal smells in the cage as much as possible. Then add a couple of dust baths, and as many places to hide as you can. Then when the time is up put them both directly into the cage. They should bathe and hide almost immediately. I usually leave the cage that way for a day, without removing anything and only dusturbing them for feeding. This gives them time to adjust to each others' presence in the cage, without havign to be directly confronted with one another, because they have lots of places to hide. They also will use all of the dust baths, so they will end up smelling the same.
 
UPDATE on the girls

Nibbles eye is all cleared up and she's feeling good.

I took them out and followed the exact instructions for the smoosh. After about 5 minutes of them going in circles, they settled and both sat there sulking with their noses out the holes. I cleaned out the big cage in and out, dried it and put it back together (it's a 5ft cage) and let let the girls out to run (normal loose playtime is cage cleaning time). They did not fight while out free. I put Kimaya on the cage first and gave her an hour to check it all out. She found her house and took cover. I put Nibbles in. Things were fine...but about 3 hours later Nibbles went to get in her wheel and Kimaya freaked out and whooped on her. A bloodly tail (Nibbles) and some fur slips were about all the damage, but I got Kimaya out of there and she's back in her cage. SIGH. :hair:
Now Kimaya is just sulking. She's been making weird sounds like hiccups every once in a while. She hasn't done that before, so I'm thinking she just pissed. The bloodhound was like 'what's up with her' and went to check it out and got sprayed right up his snout...poor thing!!!

For now I'll take the not fighting while out and loose.
 
It could be you moved a little too fast for their liking. Try slowing things down a little and see how that works out. Though who knows, I have been trying to get mine together for several months...lol. Sometimes they just don't want to.
 
Update

Well, for 4 months we've been trying and they just don't get get along. Kimaya is just going to have to stay single. She's happy that way. :chin2:

We adopted Dale today. He's a 10 yr old male. The three of them played loose for an hour and then Nibbles and Dale hunkered down in the cage. No squabbles yet. They keep checking each other out - so cute. I'm keeping my eye on them. They've been doing good for about 3 hours. Right now they are sleeping a level apart. Dale is scheduled for a vet check next week and after consulting with the vet, we've decided to neuter him. A spay would be too much for Nibbles and the vet said the males recover so much easier and quicker.

Kimaya wants nothing to do with them. Oh well, she can just hang in the 'single gals' apartment cage. :thumbsup:
 
If they had enough room to walk around in circles, then you didn't use a small enough carrier. It's called "Smooshing" for a reason. :p
 
We have SNUGGLE!!!! Dale and Nibbles are all snuggled up together and both sacked out. Does my heart good. She finally has a friend. :)
 
smoosh

Essentia said:
If they had enough room to walk around in circles, then you didn't use a small enough carrier. It's called "Smooshing" for a reason. :p
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I honestly didn't think they could even move in there together. I thought only one would fit, but was able to smoosh the other in there. But they spun around and around and then put snoots out the holes and just sulked. Weird. Kimaya just needs to be a single gal. I'll continue to do our 10-15 minutes 1:1 time a day and increase it over time. They don't fight outside of an enclosed area so I'll take it. If Kimaya is happy on her own, then there's not much else I can do but support her happiness.
 
Just to clarify - Nibbles is female, Dale is male, Dale is scheduled to be neutered but is not yet? Are you prepared for the possibility of kits? Just throwing that out there, I've heard people say it takes all of a few seconds to get the deed done!

Nibbles is a great name, by the way. My first fuzzy is named Nibbler. :)
 
EnslavedByNinjas said:
Just to clarify - Nibbles is female, Dale is male, Dale is scheduled to be neutered but is not yet? Are you prepared for the possibility of kits? Just throwing that out there, I've heard people say it takes all of a few seconds to get the deed done!

Nibbles is a great name, by the way. My first fuzzy is named Nibbler. :)
Click to expand...

TOTALLY! NO BABIES!! He's scheduled for a health check and neuter in a couple days.
 
If they're already together before the neuter, you've got the possibility of babies. So. Get ready and read up, just in case. It only takes literally 2 seconds for them to mate.
 
OH! I completely missed that one was female and the other was male. If they have already been together you need to keep an eye out for babies in about 111 days. It only takes a second, so she very well could already be pregnant. Males and females should NEVER be together unless you are specifically wanting babies.
 
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