Hypothetical question

[ticklechin]

Does every show have to have a GSC or 1st place chins? Lets say since alot of large ranchers are out, and there was some sort of act of God and a show had low attendance, just some pet owners with OK chins, a few BYBs and no one else made it. The chins in the show are not great quality at all, can a wedgy rat faced thin fured chin make a GSC because it was the best in the show? Just curious if the quality of the chins overall goes down will GSC mean anything in the future.

 

[Whimsy]

Chins in each show are judged against each other in the show.
The condition of the chin, at that moment, determins the outcome.
Make sense?
So there will always be a GSC.
Wonder if there was ever a tie?

 

[6Dusters]

It is my personal belief that breeders of fine animals will always continue to be part of the shows. Be it animals or their knowledge or their training as judges. I don't expect this to change no matter who sells off their animals. Both the Empress and MCBA work very hard on all fronts. From educational events, the web pages, breeders listing, and shows.

I welcome people to show their pets. When they see the serious work that is on the show tables I hope it inspires them to understand what hard work it is to make the matches you hope make it to the winning table.

If you are reading this and you want to learn more about nice animals and the work that goes into it. Please come to the shows! Let us know your comming. Heck this is year two for me at the shows and I still ask questions about paperwork. Shout out for Mish......thanks for always helping me with paperwork. You poor dear. Hee Hee

 

[Vyxxin]

I could be wrong, I hope someone with more show knowledge corrects me if I am, BUT at a show...chins ARE judged against each other...BUT, to go up for GSC there has to be 1A and 1B animals. I would assume, if say all animals only placed 2nd or lower at a show...there would NOT be a GSC or any other higher placing at that show?

 

[RDZCRanch]

It is entirely possibly to NOT have a GSC at a show, especially an ECBC show. The past few CA State shows, we have not had any CC sapphires and the CC violets have been few and far between. Without Class Champions, you don't have anything to compete for GSC. It is up to the individual judges to decide if a chinchilla is worthy, I'd hope with the majority of our judges being old timers, that they would hold future chinchillas to the higher standards we see today.

ETA: There has never been a tie to my knowledge. If two animals both look very nice, it just takes the judges longer to nitpick between the two and decide which one is better no matter how small the difference.

 

[Becky]

Whimsy, you are incorrect. The judge has full control. It doesn't matter if there are 200 animals in a show or 20, a 1st place animal is a first place animal. A first place at a field day may not take first at Nationals, but they are still a very nice animal.

Ange, you are right as far as MCBA goes. The judge has the discretion to give an animal a first place, but not an A or B. That means that the animal is nice, but is not worthy of Grand Show. The judge knows that all animals that he/she gives an 1A or 1B will come up for further awards. If they don't deserve it- they don't get the award. If at the end of the show there were no 1As or 1Bs, there would be no color champs and therefore no Grand Show.

ECBC chooses a best in class from the 1st place animals. If there were no first place animals there would be no class champions and therefore no Grand Show.

 

[mishellyshel]

can a wedgy rat faced thin fured chin

lol!! wedgy rat faced thin furred chins need love too!! sorry this just made me laugh.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Ange, you are right as far as MCBA goes. The judge has the discretion to give an animal a first place, but not an A or B. That means that the animal is nice, but is not worthy of Grand Show. The judge knows that all animals that he/she gives an 1A or 1B will come up for further awards. If they don't deserve it- they don't get the award. If at the end of the show there were no 1As or 1Bs, there would be no color champs and therefore no Grand Show.

This is interesting. At the one and only MCBA show I attended the judge was informed and informed the rest of us that if only one animal takes 1st place in a Class, it is automatically bumped up to a 1A. So we had to go back to three or so classes he had already judged and decided none were worthy of 1A or 1B so that he could give the different animals 1A or 1B.

ECBC chooses a best in class from the 1st place animals. If there were no first place animals there would be no class champions and therefore no Grand Show.

ECBC also holds the same as MCBA as far as first places becoming class champions. We've had a few classes where there were two or three 1st place animals and no class champions.

 

[Becky]

MCBA works the way I described. It is completely up to the judges.

I've never seen ECBC not give a first place animal a class champion, but I'm not surprised that they follow the same guidelines. It only makes sense. A Grand Show animal should deserve the award.

 

[mishalaa]

The judge has the discretion to give an animal a first place, but not an A or B.

Just want to correct the wording on this as it could sound as though the judge does not have control over awarding As and Bs, that they are automatically assigned those awards as best of the class. Not so, a judge can deem an animal "first place only" and not have any A's or B's in the class. If there aren't ANY chins that place better than first, there would be no phase, section, or Grand show champions.

I know you know what you're talking about, Becky, that just struck me when I read it. =)

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

I have seen Dave Woods do just that - give 1st places to several chins but did not feel they were good enough for the A or B so he did not give them out. I have also seen him give out just 2-5 places - no 1st

 

[ticklechin]

So if I am reading this right, *IF* the quality of chins goes down in the future due to the lack of serious breeders doing good work, GSC of the future may look like a the average pet chinchilla today? It scares me as a pet owner the huge loss of these quality ranches going away and their "lines" will be diluted by the large amount of BYBs, since there are not a whole lot of quality hobby breeders any more.

 

[Becky]

No, Dawn. Unless the organizations change their guidelines, that wouldn't happen. It will be interesting to see what happens, as so much has changed over the last 5 years. Who knows what the next 5 will bring!

 

[ticklechin]

Good to hear, I would hate it if gorgeous chins went away and the high standards that shows have for grading them went away. I may only have rescues but I can dream when I see gorgeous show winners!

 

[starleomach]

I have seen several shows where no 1st place was awarded for a color group so no champions in that group. Hopefully the show standards will never go down.

 

[jags]

Good thread! And who knows where the industry is headed for sure but I do not believe the high standards that shows have for grading chins will change in the near future. And while there have been some great ranchers sell out or move on recently its not all doom and gloom for the industry as there are others that are dedicated to raising quality animals.

 

[Ash]

For those who have said chins are judged just against each other and the outcome is determined based on that, you are incorrect. Chins are also judged against the standard of the animal itself. If you have only one animal on the table, it doesn't take 1st because there is no one to judge it against. It can still take a 2nd or 3rd or lower, based on how it compares to how it SHOULD look.

 

[mishalaa]

For those who have said chins are judged just against each other and the outcome is determined based on that, you are incorrect. Chins are also judged against the standard of the animal itself. If you have only one animal on the table, it doesn't take 1st because there is no one to judge it against. It can still take a 2nd or 3rd or lower, based on how it compares to how it SHOULD look.

Correct. They are only judged against each other when they take better than a first place and are going for the phase, section, male/female and show champs. But within the classes, they are judged against an ideal. As long as this ideal is held, and I believe it will be, placements/quality will not shift.

Also wanted to add, I have seen chins take no award, as in they were not even in good enough condition for a 5th place.

 

[lauralynne]

I have seen Jim give the only violet in an ECBC show a 1st place, but no further awards, also.

 

[aznmexaggie]

We've had a lot of shows where the animals received no award or the 1st place animals in certain classes weren't good enough for CC and competing further in the show.

I think the judging standards will be upheld and hopefully all of the hobby breeders step up to the task. I felt fortunate to be competing against our ranchers, the Neubauers, Vin and Ellis, the Reads, and Bill Booker here in CA. It really helped us newer CA breeders to step up our game and breed animals which are competitive against the "big guys." With some of these ranchers leaving, it may be more difficult but those of us who are dedicated will still acquire good breeding animals and continue to improve our herds, competing not just in our branch's shows but Nationals as well to make sure we're competitive on a National level and not just in our State. If there's a will, there's a way.