Chins vs. Other Rodents

[Linda]

I am happy to have this list as a resource to help the chins I have accepted responsibility for. I first took on some rescue chins. Then I adopted an adult pedigreed breeding pair when the owner chose not to keep them any more. Now I am taking on a new rescue pair that someone on this list asked for help with.

I have been very involved in rescuing animals. I currently have two foster dogs (don't own any of my own) and have been fostering for the better part of the last decade. I have taken on a challenging and at time difficult breed and have even attended shows for this breed to better understand their strengths and weaknesses as well as better understand the owners of this breed. I've been rescuing as well as breeding and showing multiple hamster species for far longer than that. They are fascinating creatures both with traits specific to each species and with individual traits that make them a joy to have and better understand. My father raised chins briefly when I was a child, and I finally have decided I am ready to take on a few chins, and I am using this list as a key resource in best understanding chins, their needs, and how to be a good owner.

The most disappointing thing I've seen so far is that chin owners, including very active people on this forum, feel free to denigrate other animals. Hamsters and other smaller rodents seem to be a special target. I was disappointed that dog people tend to consider "rodents" to be inferior lives, and now it seems that even some "rodent" owners and rescuers consider other "rodents" to be inferior lives.

This is a recent quote on this forum. I've left it anonymous.

Please remember before you adopt a chin that you are adopting a very smart little animal. This is not a stupid rodent that you can give a toilet paper tube to every couple weeks and that's it. They need stimulation, they need to be kept in a place where they can see what's going on and be a part of the action. It's more like having a dog or a cat than having a hamster around.

Do people really believe that a quality hamster owner tosses a toilet paper tube into their hamster cage now and again and are thus taking proper care of their hamster? Do people really believe that stimulation or enrichment activities are appropriate for chins but not appropriate for other rodents? Are there any animals commonly kept as pets that shouldn't have stimulation and enrichment activities and shouldn't these be encouraged in all species to improve pet ownership? I would consider a hamster owner who tosses a tube into the hamster cage periodically to be very similar to a dog owner who tosses a bone periodically to a chained up dog. Maybe that's the equivalent of a chin owner who tosses a lava toy into their chin cage periodically.

Maybe I'm missing the mark and mis-reading these posts, but aren't all rodents and indeed all lives equal? Don't all animals deserve a quality environment with activities appropriate to stimulate that species? Is it appropriate to denigrate other species in an attempt to build up your favored species?

I'd like to think that it's a huge benefit in our lives that we have the opportunity to chose the breed or species that best fits our needs, wants, current income and living conditions, stage of life, preferred activity level, etc. I would encourage others to continue to build up chins and chin care while not denigrating other species.

Linda

 

[tunes]

I think hamsters are incredibly smart. Those little suckers can escape ANYTHING if they put their mind to it. Christmas Bob escaped at one point, and we couldn't find him anywhere. We were devestated. We had rigged his doors and he still managed to get out. I had to move the towel rack in the upstairs bathroom one day, up 22 stairs mind you, and there was Christmas Bob! He had a huge store of nuts (that the bird had dropped), bedding (that he had carted off of the floor after the rats had kicked it out of their cages), and bird seed that the birds had flung whilst doing whatever it is that birds do. I can't even imagine how many times that little fuzzhead had climbed up and down that flight of stairs to line his lair, but he had it quite comfy. We were hugely relieved to know that he had not gotten into a wall or a vent.

I want to point out, that IMO rats are hands down smarter than a chin will ever be, but that doesn't stop me from loving my chins and my rats equally. I happen to think that rats are the absolute best pocket pet out there, bar none. That also doesn't stop me from appreciating all the different critters that I have.

I think sometimes you just have to take what people say with a grain of salt. Maybe they don't have actual experience with the species they are referring to. Maybe they had a bad experience. Maybe they just like the specific species they have and are either blind (or neurotic) to the faults they may have, putting them on a pedestal so to speak. Much like I will flat out tell you, I am a dog person, not a cat person. I am catted out to the extreme and would never actively seek to own another one. That's just my personal experience and opinion though, it doesn't mean that someone else who loves cats more than I love dogs should be offended by it.

BTW - I miss having a hammie in the house. Christmas Bob, Few (short for "A few Days Before Christmas Bob 2"), and Flash were outstanding little guys and I will definitely have another hamster at some point in the future...........when I can find a spot to put a cage........

 

[Linda]

I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to compare a hamster (and most people lump all hamster species into one as if they are very similar) to x, y, or z rodent. I know the least about guinea pigs, but once I ask them what traits they are looking for, I can quickly tell them whether any of the hamster species may or may not be appropriate for expectations.

My favorite (and a regular question I get) is from the mother who dislikes rat tails and wants whatever hamster will act like a rat. Most often a son has a friend with a rat, and the mother wants a hamster as a substitute rat. I immediately tell her that no hamster will act anything like a rat and perhaps she needs to consider overlooking the tail or seek out a tailless rat (and I don't necessarily believe breeding tailless is an asset to the breed, but....).

Each animal species as well as each individual animal has its strengths and weaknesses, and people define those strengths and weaknesses differently based on their background, desires, environment, etc. To me its wonderful to have the choice and to respect others choices without denigrating them or their favored pet.

To be honest, I'm surprised more and more every day with how similar chins are to hamsters. They have a lot in common although they do have some differences.
Linda

 

[Essentia]

I agree with Peggy. We had a hamster that managed to get out of his cage (still have no idea how he did it). We also were devastated that we couldn't find him after a 6 hour hunt. We searched everywhere to no avail. We found almost a week later behind the fridge. We had searched there several times before and he wasn't there so I'm not sure how long he had been in that specific spot before we found him. He had food and bedding there. The really strange thing is, how in the world did he get back up to his cage to get more food and bedding? His cage was on top of a small table that had nothing rough for him to climb up. Lo and behold though he had to have done it several times to get that much stuff behind the fridge.

I haven't owned rats but I have a friend who did. They are amazing little creatures, and I also think they are smarter than chins by a long shot.

 

[Bethany]

I don't think you took it wrong, but that it is worded wrong. Any species can survive with the occasional toy thrown in that doesn't mean they should. I think what should be said is not the intelligence of the other species, but the difference in care. Animals like rats and hamsters don't have to be provided with extra things to wear their teeth.

The 3rd paragraph in this link says why: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=18+1798&aid=3078

I think the main thing I think of when comparing them to other rodents is their life expectancy. Not that a rat, degu, hamster etc deserve less quality of life, but that those are 2-7 maybe 8 year commitments. I know I spend just as much money per animal on my degus as I do the chins. That’s not to say that they don’t share wood and hay, but I make toys for them as well.

 

[starleomach]

I have worked with rats, my sister had hamsters, I have owned guinipigs I prefer chinchillas. I used to have fish tanks (with fish of course) I also used to have lizards. I now have the chinchillas, the dog, two cats and four horses. Doesn't matter fur or scales, 1 year or 40 they all weasel their way into your heart. People can be just as sad when their pet dies as if a family member dies. My heart breaks each and every time I lose any of my creatures.
I think the big thing with hamsters and gerbils and such is they tend to be cheaper to obtain not that it makes them worthless and many of us don't know of shows and such but as horrible as it is people see cheap pets as lesser pets, easy to replace. I am not saying I agree with that I don't but a lot of people do. the cheaper it is the more disposable it is. Many people don't understand bonding with pets at all.

My husband likes the chinchillas but doesn't understand what they mean to me. When Harm (my first chinchilla) died this summer Marshall said I am sorry baby..and held me for a minute then said but hey you have a whole bunch of other grey ones so you'll be fine. He wasn't raised with animals, his first pet a cat is only 3 years old. He doesn't get it. I think there are more people who do not understand than do

 

[AZChins]

Thanks for quoting me and leaving me anonymous. People tend to think of hamsters as throwaway pets, that was the point. The context that I wrote that was using the mentality of the people that do not treat chinchillas appropriately. I know very little of hamsters except for the one that I owned was not nearly as sociable as the chinchillas and required less attention and toy variety.

I'm not sure if you were trying to make me feel bad? I rescue chinchillas, I have been doing this for over 10 years now. I'm very confused.... Sorry if I seemed calous, but most people do just consider a hamster as a pet that they will just throw away in a matter of months or maybe a year. I didn't make that one happen... All I do is work very hard to make sure that chins are cared for and find good homes.

 

[starleomach]

That is the problem with quotes. Knowing now who the quote came from I can see that it would be taken the wrong way. AZchins has respect for all pets and animals. I looked around. I really didn't notice any anti-hamster sentiments..but also this is a chinchilla and hedgie type forum so you will find some biase towards chinchillas and hedgies.

 

[Mookie]

I agree. its not right to throw a frequent toy in any animals cage repetetivly. Thats unfair.. How many times have you gotten this amazing brand new toy and loved it for a while, then got bored of it? well it happens many times, and any animal can be the same way, they get bored of the same old things. For my hamster, she has about a million toys (and her birthday is monday and i got her toys treats and more toys) since she has so many toys every tiome i clean her cage i "redecorate" it so she has a brand new place to explore every week. and She loves it, and on top of that i take her out a lot! This is how most rodents should be treated, as a higher group. Chinchillas don't even deserve to be caged up all day! Never mind with the same toys. it gets boring for them!

 

[Linda]

Thanks for quoting me and leaving me anonymous. People tend to think of hamsters as throwaway pets, that was the point. The context that I wrote that was using the mentality of the people that do not treat chinchillas appropriately. I know very little of hamsters except for the one that I owned was not nearly as sociable as the chinchillas and required less attention and toy variety.

I'm not sure if you were trying to make me feel bad? I rescue chinchillas, I have been doing this for over 10 years now. I'm very confused.... Sorry if I seemed calous, but most people do just consider a hamster as a pet that they will just throw away in a matter of months or maybe a year. I didn't make that one happen... All I do is work very hard to make sure that chins are cared for and find good homes.

No. I am not trying to make you feel bad. Believe me, I'm well aware people consider hamsters disposable pets. Sadly, I'm not sure chins are valued too much higher given the large numbers on Craigslist compared to reasonably small numbers that are owned. Many people still don't even know what a chin is. And if the rescues I currently have are any indication, chins can definitely be unsocialized, demand basically nothing except a little poor quality junk food, and actually prefer to be left alone. Over time I hope to change that in much the same way that I work with hamsters that have been largely ignored, but there are certainly a lot of similarities between hamsters and chins.

And the belief that hamsters are disposable transfers to the chain stores too. Most likely the chin community didn't hear about it, but a few years ago the Petsmart distributor dumped over 500 rodents on the Southern California rescue system. A driver of one of their trucks was arrested on unrelated charges, and the animals were taken to the Ventura County shelter. Petsmart decided it was worth redeeming the guinea pigs and chins, but the cheaper rodents were abandoned for the rescue system to deal with. Two hundred and fifty plus of those were Syrian (aka teddy bear) hamsters which would each need their own cage within a month. Of course a large percentage were already sick, and the shelter separated them upon intake as already sick and exposed. Another 200 were dwarf hamsters. The last 50+ were rats and mice. So at least chins are sometimes valued if only because their purchase price is higher even if the life itself isn't really of much value in the commercial breeding system. But anyone who raises or rescues hamsters is well aware of their reputation as disposable.

And I made sure I did not take the quote out of context, and I do not believe that I did. Here is the thread for those who haven't seen it.

http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10917

It's just been my biggest disappointment with this list -- the references made to other rodents as somehow stupid or lower than chins.
Linda

 

[aznmexaggie]

I had Campbell's dwarf hamsters before I owned or began breeding and showing chinchillas. I loved my pretty umbrous girls (Lucy and her daughters, Missy and Molly, who she gave birth to just a week after buying her) and was so heartbroken that they only lived a couple years. My girls loved to be held, moreso than most chins do, and they never once bit, even though Campbell's dwarves are supposedly more prone to biting than the Winter Whites and super-fast Robo dwarf hammies. I definitely appreciated the time I had with them but it is unfortunate that they live such short lives.

The main reason that the smaller rodents, such as hamsters, mice, rats, and cavies seem more disposable and replacable to people is because they can be found in any petstore (normally with many in one cage) and they are inexpensive. People who have spent $1.50 on a white mouse are not likely to pay $40+ for a vet visit if the mouse becomes ill... the mentality seems to be "if it dies, we can get another one." or "they don't live long lives anyway." (I worked at a local petstore for 4 years and I heard that all the time...) Chinchillas are less common and because of the price ($149 for standard grays at the Petsmart in my city), those who choose to own them tend to do a little more research (although that doesn't go for everybody, sadly). Because more money has to be spent for a chinchilla, they tend to hold more value compared to the smaller more inexpensive rodents... and sadly, most people think the monetary value = value of life.

 

[CerLynn]

It's really a shame that there is such a sentiment toward any animal. While I do agree that chins are generally more sociable and more intelligent, hamsters are amazing little buggers. We had our first ham for only 4 months before she developed a tumor in her abdomen. We were prepared to spend the $250 for surgery to remove it, but it had progressed too far and we decided to put her down (luckily our vet decided not to charge us even though she had already essentially done the surgery). Even having been with us for such a short time, she wiggled her way deep in our hearts, and we still have her ashes and a small memorial on display. Our current hammy girl has been going strong with us for 1.5 years now, and she's become a huge part of our family - she's also been through surgery after losing a foot in a wheel accident, and she's infamous for rearranging cage items in ways I can't even comprehend. It'll be just as hard to lose her as it would one of our chins... big or small, they're all family, and we'll do whatever we can to keep them happy and healthy.

 

[Linda]

I had Campbell's dwarf hamsters before I owned or began breeding and showing chinchillas. I loved my pretty umbrous girls (Lucy and her daughters, Missy and Molly, who she gave birth to just a week after buying her) and was so heartbroken that they only lived a couple years.

Bowtie Inc., the company that creates the Dog Fancy and Cat Fancy magazines you see in most pet stores, created a complete magazine devoted to hamsters about five years ago. By the time they got me involved to help with content correctness, they had already promised a few of the articles to professional writers (read that as people who had never owned a hamster but thought they could advise owners-to-be). I referred them to hamster fanciers for the rest of the articles including all of the species articles. (I wrote the Campbells dwarf hamster article and love the little guys as much as you do.)

They had me edit the magazine meaning I reviewed all of the articles and photos once they were written and before they went to press. (I insisted on reviewing photos too. A few years before in their Critters Magazine, they mistakenly put a full two-page photo of a mouse at the front of the hamster article. I got a preview copy and was the first to notify them, but by then, thousands of these had been printed and were in the distribution system.)

The hamster magazine had an article titled something like "Ten Reasons to Own a Hamster" written by a professional writer. I strenuously objected to reasons 9 and 10 and told them to stop at 8 which of course they didn't do but did tone 9 and 10 down. One of them was to buy a hamster instead of a rat since a hamster didn't have the long, ugly tail (and the differences between hamsters and rats are SO much deeper than the tail). The other was to buy your kid a hamster because you knew he'd be tired of it within a month and you'd be left to clean the cage. With a hamster, that means you're only cleaning cages for two plus years while with a guinea pig, it could be six or eight years. (Luckily they didn't compare to a chin.)

I found that terribly offensive. If you know your kid isn't going to pay attention to the hamster after a month, buy them a stuffed hamster! They've had stuffed dancing hamsters, stuffed hamsters that run on wheels, etc. for years! This year they've even come out with ZhuZhu hamsters -- the perfect hamster for this situation.

The magazine is still in pet stores. Reasons 9 and 10 are toned down and now less offensive than before, but why in the world would you encourage anyone to buy a pet for a kid that doesn't really want it for more than a few weeks. I don't get it.

Because more money has to be spent for a chinchilla, they tend to hold more value compared to the smaller more inexpensive rodents... and sadly, most people think the monetary value = value of life.

Sadly chin owners abandoning their chins also want to be paid to have them rescued. Since they've paid more for the chin and cage, they expect you to pay them handsomely to take on the responsibility they chose to give up. That's one of the hardest differences I see between rescuing the two. The abandoned animals have many of the same issues and challenges, but to have to pay them for the privilege of rescuing their pet because they got a dog, are moving, etc. is hard.
Linda

 

[AZChins]

I didn't say they were stupid. I'm just very partial to chinchillas. As are most of the people here. I don't think that you did understand what I was saying... It has nothing really to do with hamsters at all. I could have said something about goldfish...it was just an example. And, it wasn't a judgment on other animals, or at least it wasn't meant to be??

People throw away chins just as easily as they throw away other animals. I get to deal with it all the time.

 

[aznmexaggie]

Sadly chin owners abandoning their chins also want to be paid to have them rescued. Since they've paid more for the chin and cage, they expect you to pay them handsomely to take on the responsibility they chose to give up. That's one of the hardest differences I see between rescuing the two. The abandoned animals have many of the same issues and challenges, but to have to pay them for the privilege of rescuing their pet because they got a dog, are moving, etc. is hard.
Linda

Well, I have three rescue/owner surrender chins here at the moment. One was surrendered because the previous owner had to move across state suddenly. The other two were from a neglect situation where the owners allowed their chins to breed with their siblings/parents and were about to let the chins go because they kept reproducing (9 chins, both males and females, were in the same cage). I was able to take in two males and I took the rest of them to Chins to Go where they have a small barn for their rescue chins. I do not pay to "rescue" chins as I will be the one paying for his/her feed, hay, bedding, vet bills, etc. until they are healthy and in good shape to be rehomed. Of all the chins I've rescued over the past three years, the owners just wanted to make sure their chins would be taken care of because they were either unable to keep their chins or knew they weren't giving their chins good care. That's not to say I haven't been contacted a few times by people asking me if I want to "rescue" their chin for a small fee...

 

[3CsMommy]

I paid $5.00 for my Syrian, Princess Peach, to get her away from a woman complaining to someone on her cell phone that the pet store wouldn't take it back (because the hammy bit her kid)-- while the kid stood next to her and shook the paper bag the hamster was carried in. Peach now lives in a 20 gal. long tank w/ mesh top, climbing frame, wheel, and all the food she can stuff in her face and every corner of the tank. Most days, I have more fun with her than my chin, just because she's less skittish, even having had such rough treatment in her first home.

I agree, though, that it is a shame that so few people see the value in the life of a small or "inexpensive" animal, whether we're talking about a pet chinchilla or a pet rat. I've rescued feeder mice and betta fish for the same reason, and it never fails to tick me off.