Alfalfa

Just a question to debate. Why is it accepted that its ok to feed alfalfa/timothy cubes with a alfalfa pellet yet its not ok to feed loose alfalfa and loose timothy with a alfalfa pellet? Isn't alfalfa alfalfa in both forms? I feed loose alfalfa and timothy, like 3/4 timothy and 1/4 alfalfa and see no difference between that and timothy/alfalfa cubes, am I missing something in the process of making cubes that changes the nutrition of the alfalfa to make it acceptable?

It doesn't matter...alfalfa is alfalfa. I don't like loose alfalfa so we give out cubes. (It hurts my hands and it's hard to clean up...) They get loose timothy at night.

There is no changes in nutrition from the cubing process...so it doesn't matter. I don't know why anyone would see it differently. Hay is hay... The chins seem to like the loose stuff better sometimes...that would be the only difference, maybe?

I was under the impression that since the pellets are alfalfa based then alfalfa hay shouldn't really be given unless the chin is calcium deficient otherwise it can cause bladder stones. Or is this not really the case?

There are those that feed pellets only or alfalfa cubes and pellets only and the chins do fine, that is a 100% alfalfa diet, so what I am getting at, is the impression that is given that alfalfa is bad a falsehood?

I have fed mine loose alfalfa along with timothy for years now, most are approaching 10 years old and one is 16, so I don't think loose alfalfa is the devil people portray it to be.

I feed alfalfa hay sometimes...all depends on what we buy for the horses. There are a lot of falsehoods out there that people just repeat without knowing why......they hear it so they repeat it.

I don't think it is bad at all to feed that much alfalfa. A lot of people will say that it is, but I have always thought that that was a carry over from information that people had on rabbits.

The chins do benefit from having a grass hay to eat. It isn't as high in protein, calcium and other nutrients so they can eat more of it, of course. They eat more of the grass hay and get more fiber from it. I think timothy hay and other grass hays are less filling.

I'm not sure if it would be 100% right to say that feeding all alfalfa is bad, but I think that the chins can benefit from having a variety of hay.

I haven't dealt with a bladderstone here in maybe 10 years or so. That was with a rescue that had a very treat heavy diet. Sometimes the bladderstones and kidney problems seem to come out of nowhere, but most of the time it probably has more to do with sugary treats more than it would have to do with consumption of alfalfa hay.

There are chinchillas that are fed all alfalfa in their diets and they do just great for their entire lives without any deleterious health effects. I certainly don't think that it is something that anyone should consider to be a bad thing.

And certainly I wouldn't say that loose alfalfa is bad at all. The chins love it...they get to chew it up, destroy it, play with it... If it works for you, don't change it. My oldest girl is 19 in a few months and she lived 12 years of her life on nothing but alfalfa pellets, alfalfa cubes and loose alfalfa. The rancher told me that out there they couldn't find good, safe grass hays...so that's what all the chins had for their diet.

That is what I heard also, the quality of the timothy back east can be crappy so they feed loose alfalfa instead. The only chinchilla I know personally that had a bladder stone was from a yound breeder who that chin only had a alfalfa pellet/timothy hay diet and the vet told her it could be caused from a bladder infection, the body was trying to encapsulate the infection with the stone. I have never heard of bladder sludge in chins like rabbits get.

I don't think alfalfa is as bad as it is portrayed either but in order to keep the chin's pallets up and get my pregnant girls eating I usually give them a variance in the loose hay. My cubes are alfalfa/orchard grass mix though and there is no difference between cubes and loose hay. Cubes are just compressed.

A bladder infection wouldn't have been caused by the diet...or not directly anyway. I know that too much sugar can make a chin more prone to bacterial infections and things as can dirty conditions, etc.

I don't think I have ever heard of an infection causing a stone in the bladder! That is a possibility. I think that a lot of times a simple urinary tract infection in chins, especially males, can be misdiagnosed as a stone because the chin isn't urinating. Infections can cause a lot of inflammation in their tiny ureters and not allow urine to pass easily...not to mention the urine scald. (Poor little chins...)

So, why are most of the feeds out there timmy based and not alfalfa based if they're equally nutritious, or are they?

This has nothing to do with nutrition but I personally cannot stand the smell of alfalfa hay and I bought it by accident once and I ended up chucking it into the compost pile b/c it totally stunk up my chin room. Now if I thought/knew it would benefit the chins then I'd buy some but store it elsewhere b/c I really don't like the smell of that hay.

Feed is for the most part alfalfa based, APD is the only Ok feed that is timothy based-I fed it when I first got chins and found feeding timmy pellets along with timmy hay and no alfalfa the "look" of the chin suffered, the fur was not as nice and they just looked scruffy, poo looked good though.

I have been meaning to ask this question for awhile! I do feed alfalfa cubes, but they are also free fed timmy hay and occasional orchard grass. They really seem to enjoy working away at their hay cubes, so I was going to hate to take them away if it is unhealthy. But my understanding is that you can't really get timothy cubes (besides Kaytee) or can you? Are there symptoms I should watch for to know if they're getting too much alfalfa? My girls are on Oxbow pellets.

Sorry, I got distracted. I meant that most feeds out there are alfalfa-based, not timmy based.

ticklechin said:

Feed is for the most part alfalfa based, APD is the only Ok feed that is timothy based-I fed it when I first got chins and found feeding timmy pellets along with timmy hay and no alfalfa the "look" of the chin suffered, the fur was not as nice and they just looked scruffy, poo looked good though.

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If you fed a timmy pellet then shouldn't you have fed an alfalfa hay though? I thought you had to feed an alternative to the pellets: alfalfa pellet + timmy hay or timmy pellet + alfalfa hay.

I use an alfalfa-based pellet with alfalfa cubes and loose timothy hay as a treat on occasion. I can't find timothy hay here in bulk and I surely can't afford to feed it nightly when it costs $25 for 16 lbs (and that's when I get free shipping).

There are many ranchers that use alfalfa-based pellets with alfalfa cubes and no timothy in the diet. You would think that if it caused problems that they would no longer follow this practice.

Carol~Anne said:

If you fed a timmy pellet then shouldn't you have fed an alfalfa hay though? I thought you had to feed an alternative to the pellets: alfalfa pellet + timmy hay or timmy pellet + alfalfa hay.

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This was years ago when APD first came out with the timmy pellet, I was in the test group for the pellet before it was released and the animal nutritionist wanted us to use timmy pellets and timmy hay, that was how the pellet was formulated to be used as timmy only. It was meant for mature chinchillas.

Kelley said:

boy am I more confused. . . .
here is the email I received from them when I asked about their hay. . . .

Kelly, Our Mountain Mist Timothy is 1st crop, and our Sunset Sweetness timothy/alfalfa
is the second crop timothy out of the same field . The second crop timothy will have more alfalfa than 1st crop but we try to get the bales with the most timothy in them.1st crop has 5-10% alfalfa and 2nd can vary from bale to bale but usually around 5-20%.If you try the Sunset sweetness I 'm sure your chins will love it. Both are available year around at this time.Thanks Bob

any input???

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I would buy it to try and see if my chins like it. I use APD timothy and oxbow alfalfa because I can buy it local so no shipping.

In my opinion, a mature non-breeding pet chin should not be fed a diet of an alfalfa-based pellet and alfalfa hay only. Their energy requirements are much lower and do not need the extra nutrients and calcium which is in alfalfa hay. This excess is what can cause kidney stones. However, a chin on a timothy hay-based pellet and loose timothy hay should also get a small amount of alfalfa hay in some form (loose, cubed). Like ticklechin mentioned, the chins on a timmy-only diet tend to lose condition... I have heard this from others who also fed a timmy-only diet at one point.

A breeding chin, pregnant or lactating female, or growing chin probably would not have any problems with alfalfa hay and alfy-based pellets. They need and utilize the extra nutrients. As a breeder, I use alfalfa/timothy cubes, loose timothy hay and an alfalfa-based pellet for all my chins and I also give my pregnant/nursing/growing chins alfalfa as well. My pet chins get the same with the exception of alfalfa which I only give occasionaly. I don't see any problem with giving a blend of timothy and alfalfa loose hay or cubes to any chin. I just think solely alfalfa hay as the roughage isn't appropriate for a mature pet-only chin.