recessive whites

Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum

Help Support Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
D

Dreamlite

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
1,130
Location
Dallastown, PA
I am interested in learning more about recessive whites. They have always interested me. Are they a simple recessive like a violet where it only takes 2 carriers to produce? With a new color how do they determine a standardd for the color? From what I understand they have a very yellowish hue which would be undesirable in any other color. Are breeders trying to breed that out or specificly breeding for that? What would it take to make a new color showable? I've been searching but havnt found really any breeders or websites with much information onthis color.
 
Actually I think Mish Irish on here has/had some and maybe Paul K. I think they proved that the recessive whites and goldbars were the same thing. But I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.
 
RW is is a simple recessive, removing the yellow or golden hue would make them basically white and removing what they are, IMO.

I have not heard anything that Mish's breeding experiment was disproved, if it was I'd like to know. She crossed RW's and gold bar's with the help of Paul K, so the animals were out of different herds. I should think that if a RW crossed with a gold bar produces a colored offspring, then it is in fact the same gene otherwise you'd just get a double recessive carrier.

The color is technically not white, it is technically a beige mutation and should be shown with the beiges, but the judge has the option to place the animal in whichever category they chose to be the best fit.

This thread has good pictures of a girl I breed here while working with my rw's, it took me years to produce this quality. They need work, like any recessive or newer mutation, but I think with time they can become very high quality, I know major advances have already been made. I personally love the color, and if I was looking for a chin fur, I would have no issues with having the golden hue over the blue.

http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28139&highlight=calyx
 
Last edited:
Does Mish's article contain any actual genetic testing? Or is it hypothesized based on visual confirmation?
 
I was told that all of the fading whites ended up with Luke Fausett.

To Brown Cow, is there any genetic testing on violets to ensure they are all the same kind of violets?

If they cross they must be the same mutation to some extent because tehy are recessive mutations. I don't know of any other recessive mutation that can cross with any other and actually create an animal, if you cross a violet and a sapphire you don't get a Blue Diamond, you get a double carrier...
 
So the answer would be no then, there was no genetic testing or coding done. Was there a control group in the experiment? Does it follow the scientific method in any way?

I'm not picking sides in this conversation, but if neither side has empirical evidence to back up their claim then it is a debate of each persons hypothesis, it is not 'proven' in any academic, peer-reviewed, or scientific sense.
 
I haven't heard anything about the other party, who it was or otherwise, who's disputed this.

I don't understand what's to dispute, a gold bar was crossed with a recessive white and they created mutation offspring that looked just like them.

If anyone has tried to cross them and gotten different results I would love to hear, but no one has yet to identify this person or bring to light what they did.
 
And there is no empirical evidence to back up the validity of the original proof, that's kind of my whole point. It doesn't matter who disputes the original proof because scientifically it was never a valid proof to begin with. It is a hypothesis based on visual observations. Neither side has any evidence, in the true sense of the word (at least that has been presented to date). The only way to find out would be to map and compare the genetic codes of multiple gold bars and RWs, using genetic sorting to identify and weed out other 'mutations' present in a given chin, and to have a control group. If you want to solve the dispute, involve a geneticist, carry out the experiment, and publish the results in a peer-reviewed journal to demonstrate that it is duplicable (spelling?), transparent, and empirically valid.
 
How was it desided that gold bars are actually beiges? They look to be whites so I would assume the lethal factor would be the same?
 
Hmmm. I am pretty sure Mish bred a RW to a Goldbar. If so that would of been 100% confirmation that they are one in the same.
 
Last edited:
Well perhaps violets aren't violets, and sapphires aren't sapphires... maybe we need to do genetic testing on them because it was not done. I can assure you that if you test standards you will find MANY genetic differences, are you going to dispute that they are not all standards? A standard out of a white or beige would genetically be different than a standard out of a std x std pairing, so should be DNA test all of them as well?

From my understanding two animals, a "gold bar" and a "RW" from two different herds, proven to be that from pedigreed information, that bred to a standard would only produce a standard carrying the color gene were crossed which resulted in colored offspring identical to both parents, who looking strikingly a lot alike.

If you would prefer for me to write that entire abstract in a research paper I can. The information will still be the same. The "control group" of which there were two, would be the individual herds that the "test group" came from.

As of right now, you appear to be the only person disputing this. I believe in science, but not as much as I believe in common sense. If you want to piss and moan about it then perhaps all "humans" should be tested because we are not all genetically identical. Would that make me any more of a human than you because you have traces of neanderthal in your DNA?

To satisfy your inquiries that obviously are not founded by evidence here I will make you an offer. I will provide you with genetic material from both a gold bar and a recessive white, you do the testing and get back to us. Personally I don't see what your deal is because I see that you have two chinchillas, do you plan on breeding either RW's or Goldbars that this would affect your future plans? Or do you chose to just attempt to sit around poking holes? Since standards are much more influential, I suggest you start with DNA testing the standards to ensure they are all standards. If your money is not spent then perhaps you should move onto the dominant white, of course comparing it to standards that are "pure" and standards out of a white.
 
Last edited:
I just don't understand what more you want. Currently I have what's labeled as a sapphire vc. However he is proving himself to be a blue diamond with the offspring he's producing. If you breed something that is 100% recessive to 100% recessive and you get 100% recessive then what else is there to prove. You don't need a geneticist for that.
 
Are you sure Jess? You better have him DNA tested... :hmm:

Trial and error ... the original testing method preferred by poor scientists everywhere!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top