Question for Paypal users/sellers/breeders

[paula1101]

I'm putting this here because it really doesn't belong anywhere else in the chinchilla forum, I don't think.

I have a question for breeders and other sellers who use Paypal just to get a sense on a situation I recently dealt with.

Recently, I decided to buy 3 chinchillas from a breeder and we agreed on a $200 deposit. Before dealing with this person, I had heard some negative feedback about her from others but my dealings with her up until the end were very positive and I gave her the benefit of the doubt and based my opinion on my own dealings and none of the negative things I'd heard.

Anyway, the seller/breeder agreed to refund my deposit if it didn't work out, and, it didn't. The story I was told led me to believe that it was due to no fault of hers and so I just asked for my money back. She agreed to send me my deposit ($200) and then I didn't hear from her for a day and a half. Finally I asked when my refund would be processed and she did it. BUT. First, she sent me $193.90 and said that's what she got after Paypal fees. Because of the negative things I'd heard from several sources I had done the purchase as a goods purchase so that I would have recourse if anything went wrong with the transaction. So. I messaged her and said that all she had to do was REFUND the purchase through Paypal and I'd get my full money back and she wouldn't have to deal with Paypal fees. She then sent me another $5.50, bringing the amount she refunded to $199.40. She sent a message saying she had to pay a fee of 30 cents on each $100 so that was all she'd send me. I replied again that I didn't give a flying flip about what Paypal charged her, all she needed to do was refund the purchase through Paypal and her fees would be reversed and I'd get my full $200 back with a note that I could not believe she was being so difficult (and greedy!) about this. She sent me another $.60.

My question is this and for those who deal with Paypal regularly. What is your opinion on expecting the buyer to pay the Paypal fees when you agree to refund the money? Is it me, or is that complete and total BS? Is there any way that this person who had obviously been dealing with Paypal for years (she asked me to send the rest of the money as a gift so she wouldn't have to pay fees, which indicated experience to me) truly didn't know that you can simply refund a purchase through Paypal and have it all be resolved easily and to everyone's satisfaction? I doubt so, and this business of expecting me to pay the fees because she was peeved that I hadn't sent the payment as a “gift” in the first place has really left a bad taste in my mouth and I know I will never consider purchasing from her in the future and sadly, all my positive experiences with her were negated by this silliness over $6.10. It really bothers me, but I'm curious to know what other sellers think and how they'd refund the purchase in this situation.

Thanks for input.

 

[AZChins]

When money is refunded the fees are refunded except for the $0.30 per transaction fee that paypal charges. I have had people back out of their orders and I usually tell them that I am going to keep that $0.30. If I back out of something or something was my fault, I don't keep the $0.30. All this woman would be charged is $0.30 per transaction with her receiving money...beyond that I don't think she should keep anything unless that was agreed upon when you first sent a deposit. Some breeders have non-refundable deposits or they want to keep a certain amount, it's up to them and it's fully within their rights to do what they want to do.

Did she have any terms regarding the deposit in the beginning? If I have to watch chinchillas for quite awhile, I usually take something for boarding them if someone decides that they don't want the chins anymore and have given a deposit. For the most part I don't like to take deposits because of the headache that it can cause.

I've heard of a lot of people requesting paypal funds to be sent as a gift. It seems a bit unprofessional for someone running a business to request that. I always tell people that paypal is fine, but I definitely prefer cash since I don't have to pay fees on it. Although, I really do end up giving paypal (actually they just take it) quite a bit of money. We may hate the fees, but they are a necessary thing in receiving the service paypal provides. It means getting a payment instantly so the fees are partially worth it, and there is some buyer/seller protection. (Even though Paypal tends to side with buyers more often even when the buyers lie or try to run a scam...)

 

[paula1101]

No terms, really. Originally I wanted two males and she was going to try to pair them. I specifically asked, if it didn't work out, if my deposit would be refunded. She said, yes, absolutely - normally the deposit isn't refundable but this was a different set of circumstances so she would refund my deposit. I have that in writing, with no qualifiers or indication she'd hold anything back if we got to that point. Then the chins didn't get along and she offered me a third male that was already bonded to and living with one of the two original chins. I told her I'd buy the bonded pair and the additional male (he's the one I originally inquired about and really wanted, the other two were offered to me later) and she said that was fine. Then this week she said that the original male had attacked his tail so severely that she couldn't sell him and that he might need to be euthanized. Which was fine, but since he's the one I had wanted in the first place and the other two, according to her, weren't really for sale, just offered after the fact, I just asked for my money to be refunded. She said specifically that she would refund my money because none of it was my fault. Again, in writing.

So, then when she finally refunded my money she withheld the $6.10 then I had to beg to get the rest of it back. And I need to be clear, I really don't care about the 6 bucks, it's just the principle. A refunded purchase, through Paypal, is just that. There wouldn't be fees associated with it because she didn't make any money if she refunded the purchase. And the 30 cents you pay per $100 as a seller is not my problem and an extremely petty an unprofessional thing to be bickering over as a seller, I think. As you said, it's the cost of the service they provide, though I do understand that it's a bit ridiculous at times.

I understand your point about asking for payment as a gift and agree it's a bit unprofessional. It didn't bother me at the time; there are a couple sellers I've done business with for years and really trust who I always send payments as a gift to, so I didn't think much of it at the time, but I have established a relationship with them and sending the money as a gift is my choice, not done at their request.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I don't know why it would be considered unprofessional to send monies via a gift? Out of curiousity-why would you think that Susan?

I send monies via a gift to all the breeders/ranchers I have dealt with. If I don't they always tell me, yes they got my deposit but it only came to $190 and your balance is now $110 for a $300 animal. I'm fine with that. I have no problems with paying full amount and I never get upset with them. I always kick myself for forgetting to send it as a gift...especially large amounts.

I've always wondered when I buy something from say Ryersons using their online site and then pay by paypal...are business's like that getting hit with fees. That would suck and I would feel bad they weren't getting the complete total.

If I received a full $200 for a payment and needed to refund then I would send a full $200 right back to them...and if on paypal..as a gift.

That's just my two cents.

 

[AZChins]

Because when things are sold on Paypal and they are part of a business the fees are supposed to be paid and the money paid is reported to the IRS if it is above a certain amount. I have to pay for fees with my business and it would be a lie if I made my customers send me money as a gift when it is indeed not. Paypal will eventually find out if someone is accepting gifts when doing business and they could suspend accounts because of it. I don't want my account suspended...

Somethings can be considered a gift, but when purchasing something it really isn't a gift. If I had a merchant account with another credit card/debit card processing company, I would pay fees. It's part of running a legitimate business.

 

[lilchinchilla]

I agree with Susan. I don't know all about paypal's policies with "gifts", but I do know that they do report it all to the IRS in the US, and it's better to be honest than get anyone in trouble with the IRS.

I know -also- sometimes sellers request buyers to pay the paypal fees for the transaction, but it is actually against paypal's policy for sellers to do that to buyers.

It is apparently the seller's "fee" for using that particular payment method (just like sellers who use interac pin pads/processors in their stores have to pay for the interac/visa services.).
You can report a seller to paypal for requesting a buyer pay the paypal fees. I reported a seller about ten years ago when that seller was insisting I pay their paypal fees in order to buy their merchandise online.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I guess I just don't use PayPal enough as a seller stand point. I use it alot as a buyer for the convience factor.

I guess it's something to think about if I sold an animal from here on out.

Thanks Susan!

 

[Encantadora]

I never thought about that Susan. Good points to bring up, which leads me to ask... Who believes breeders are a business? It seems like a lot of people can agree those who do it as a job are a business. Those who sell products make a business. But as the scale goes down to those involved down to the pet people with "accidental" litters-- a business?

Regardless I see your point that if you sell anything and take money for it- exchange a good or service for pay-- PayPal expects to get their fee.

I'm just starting to get more payments that way and see why you do it that way.

 

[AZChins]

I don't consider people with accidental litters to be much of anything, possibly irresponsible. Perhaps they should take cash? Isn't that what most people, who sell their accidental babies on Craig's List, want? Accepting payment for ANYTHING is considered to be something that paypal expects for there to be a feed paid. Gifts of cash are just that, not payments for goods or services. If someone sells on eBay, they pay a fee, paypal makes sure of that. There is no difference if someone is paying for goods and services from another source. (I believe that if one person has to follow the rules or risk their account being suspended, then everyone should have to follow the rules.)

There are customers of mine that could care less if it is paypal or cash or check. If I have someone local buying something, I request cash so that I don't have to pay a paypal fee. But, if I have someone buying a cage all the way across the country, paypal is a good way of getting the money upfront without having to wait forever for checks to clear and for the mail to get it to me.

If you don't want fees taken out, send a money order or cashier's check. Paypal is really something meant for convenience. A money order can get to where it needs to go in 2 to 3 days through first class mail - the cost of a stamp is less than the cost of using paypal.

 

[Spoof]

Ho boy, Ronda and I have a love/hate relationship with Paypal and these issues.

To the OP - If you paid as a payment yes, the person could have just clicked the button to refund your amount but for whatever reason didn't.

If you sent the money as a gift there is no buyer protection. The seller could simply not send you the product and you have no due recourse. Do this at your own risk!

Paypal reports all earnings over $20,000 AND 200 separate payments per year. If you do not make that, they do not report you.

If you do get reported, hire a tax specialist. You can deduct shipping, fees, handling, etc. They report your gross, so if you bring in $21K and pay $15K in shipping technically you are only earning $6K. Despite this Paypal reports to the IRS that you earned 21K. Accountants are your friends here. )

Personally I do cash only, in the two cases I took paypal I made the people pay the fees upfront. There are various calculators on the internet that will calculate fees on $200 for you.

 

[akane]

Personally I think it's silly to argue over $7.10 out of $200. I think the buyer should just consider it a loss because it's such a small amount and a downside of using paypal. If I was the seller and had someone whining I'd probably take the loss just to shut them up since I waste that much on groceries I don't need in a week. That much wouldn't even buy a bag of food for my finches.

 

[Sue]

AMEN!!

 

[Spoof]

since I waste that much on groceries I don't need in a week. That much wouldn't even buy a bag of food for my finches.

Some have a tighter budgets than others. Also, it is about honesty and integrity.

I gave you $200 for animals that I did not receive, you chose to use Paypal as the medium, you give me $200 back. If the seller does not want to deal with fees there is cash and check.

 

[akane]

I would never accept a check over $50. Far too many scammers. We do cash or paypal goods and if they complain we send a little extra to cover the fees ourselves.

 

[Dreamlite]

I take check as a deposit cause it has time to clear. I take money orders of cash on pick up so Idont have to worry bout a check bouncing. Paypal is too much of a pain and I dont sell that many chins out of the area that I would need it.

 

[akane]

Money orders are no safer than checks. I did some heavy research in to it when getting scammers about a horse I had listed for $3500 and a show saddle for $1200. Generally we take cash however sometimes things cost high amounts like that or I list animals before they are ready to go to a home and people pay the full amount through paypal ahead of time. I've also paid someone through paypal for 3 chins and cage because it was a 4hr drive, we never carry cash and the bank we use is not in the state we currently live, and we wanted to do 2 types of payment. We put $200 on a debit card in my maiden name from my account and the rest from my husband's paypal account straight out of the bank account. You can't have a card or bank account with a different last name on it than is on your paypal account so I couldn't put his stuff on my account or my stuff on his account. It's also the only way we can pay straight out of the bank account if they don't have a credit/debit card machine. We also do deposits to hold animals through paypal. We sent $60 (actually $63 to cover fees) to hold the tov white male we are getting next month and I request $20 to hold a hedgehog. It's pretty standard to do deposits through paypal for animals. I don't know a breeder who doesn't do it.

 

[HolyBegeebers]

My local bank is no longer accepting Money Orders unless they know the person it is coming from. Paypal is definitely a safer option nowadays.