Please help me decide!

[eycamry]

Hi all, I posted this following thread a few days ago regarding Polly's condition:
http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14086

Well... I did not call Dr. Greek till yesterday morning because Polly seemed more energetic on Sunday and was eating more. However, she suddenly stopped eating Monday evening. So I've started force-feeding her with a syringe. It is a mixture of CC, LL, Dyne, probiotics, and her medications (Metacam and antibiotics).

Since the x-rays showed nothing wrong with Polly's teeth, Dr. Greek was not sure what else we can do. He suggested bringing Polly in and get more aggressive on her teeth. Polly will have to be put under and get her teeth filed down even though it was just a tiny minor problem. I've made an appt with him anyway for this coming Saturday.

However, I really don't know what to do at this moment. Since I started force-feeding her, she has been doing pretty well. Her weight has maintained, she hasn't drooled at all. Her poop is less, but she is pooping and I am massaging her also. Here are my two choices:

1. Keep feeding her for another week or two. If she gets better, great! If not, then take her in to see Dr. Greek. However, I am afraid that she will go down hill too quickly. It has been a cycle for her. On some days, she is better, but other days, she gets worse.

2. Take her in on Saturday, but it will totally stress her out. She will need to be put on Baytril which will destroy her appetite. All for some tiny minor problem that may not even be the cause of her illness.

I would very much like to hear what you all think. What would you do in this situation? Besides the two choices above, do you have any other suggestions? Pleeeeease... help me making the decision. Being 8 months pregnant, I am totally stressed out. THANK YOU!

 

[Ash]

First off, you shouldn't be feeding the anti-b's with her food and probiotics. They should be at least 4 hours apart. (Give her meds at 4, then food and pro-b's at 8 sorta deal).

As far as what to do? That is your call. No one can tell you what to do, and I've never been in a situation like this to even offer suggestions.

 

[eycamry]

Thanks for reminding me about not mixing the probiotics and the antiobiotics. I forgot.

I am not asking anyone to TELL me what to do as I know it is ultimately my decision. I just need some suggestions from experienced owners to see what they would do in this situation. I am very much torn between the two choices.

 

[Essentia]

I could have possibly missed something in the other thread, but I didn't see why he had put her on Baytril in the first place, and why he would put her on it again. Was she sick or did she just have her teeth filed?

 

[eycamry]

I could have possibly missed something in the other thread, but I didn't see why he had put her on Baytril in the first place, and why he would put her on it again. Was she sick or did she just have her teeth filed?

Polly was put on another form of antibiotics (PTS) for a very minor ulcer on her cheek by the vet in Irvine. However her condition (drooling and weight loss) did not get any better, so I decided to take her to see Dr. Greek who is more experienced. PTS is not known to suppress appetite like Baytril does. Dr. Greek put her on Metacam because he filed down a little spur on one of her tooth (without putting her under), and told me to continue with PTS.

 

[Essentia]

Ah, ok. I missed the part about the ulcer. How long ago was she taken off the Baytril? Has the ulcer been looked at since that time to see if it has healed? I'm also a bit concerned that he didn't look at her teeth while she was under. He may have missed a spur with her being wiggly.

With my one chin I had to hand feed the entire time he was on Baytril and then approx. a week afterward because he still wasn't eating. I eventually weened him off the CC after that by just feeding him less throughout the day that way he felt the need to eat more. It was still a struggle though to get him to eat on his own again. How much are you feeding her daily?

 

[Kansas City Chinchillas]

I don't envy you having to make the decision. Personally I might wait and see how she does. Her mouth may still be sore. Taking her for more mouth work might be counter productive however that thought is pure speculation.

 

[eycamry]

Ah, ok. I missed the part about the ulcer. How long ago was she taken off the Baytril? Has the ulcer been looked at since that time to see if it has healed? I'm also a bit concerned that he didn't look at her teeth while she was under. He may have missed a spur with her being wiggly.

With my one chin I had to hand feed the entire time he was on Baytril and then approx. a week afterward because he still wasn't eating. I eventually weened him off the CC after that by just feeding him less throughout the day that way he felt the need to eat more. It was still a struggle though to get him to eat on his own again. How much are you feeding her daily?

No no... She was never put on Baytril this time around, only PTS for the ulcer about three weeks ago. At that time, she was put under and got her blood drawn and xrays taken. Then a week ago I took her in to see Dr. Greek since she did not get any better. He did look at her teeth and the xrays from the other doctor, and filed down a small spur.

She had her teeth filed down last April for which she was put on Baytril for two weeks. I had to hand feed her for two months before she fully recovered. With my baby coming in May, I am hesitant to go through that again.

 

[tunes]

She had her teeth filed down last April for which she was put on Baytril for two weeks. I had to hand feed her for two months before she fully recovered. With my baby coming in May, I am hesitant to go through that again.

I'm not real sure how to phrase this without it sounding bad as I'm sure it will, but if I'm reading this right, you're basing whether or not to provide veterinary care on how much trouble it's going to be for you with a new baby? I understand that a new baby is taxing and takes a lot of your time, but that isn't your chin's fault.

Your choice to get pregnant was the same as your choice to bring the chin into your home - it's your choice, not the chins. A spur on a tooth may not seem like a big deal to you or your vet, but if it's digging into her cheek or her tongue, that is a huge deal for your chin. If her teeth are fine, other than that little spur, why would you not give her every opportunity to have a chance at healing?

I am one of the first people to step on the PTS bandwagon when it comes to malo, because I just don't see the point to torturing a chin with constant tooth filings, etc. But, if this is just one tooth, just one spur, no root issues, then I would have it done.

If you cannot handle the after care of the chin, then please, give her to someone who can. There are rescues all over the place, or maybe just another concerned chin owner who might be willing to step up and take her.

 

[eycamry]

Wow, I did not see that coming, Tunes. I had no intention of harming my chin whether I have one baby or ten babies coming. I will do whatever it takes to get her well, like I did before. I was only complaining a little knowing that being a first time parent, taking care of the chin and the baby is going to take a huge toll on me and my husband. I do not want to go through or have Polly go through something that is not necessary.

At this moment, I do not know what is best for my chin other than wanting her to recover. That was why I wrote this long post asking for people's suggestions. Your post definitely did not help at all other than adding more frustration to me personally. If you read my post carefully, the spur was filed down by Dr. Greek. Neither he, nor the vet in Irvine, really knows what is wrong with her. He wants to go into her mouth by putting her under and going in more aggressively. But I am not so sure if that is the best way.

Anyway, I don't know if I am talking nonsense now because your post is making me a little upset. maybe it is just my crazy hormones speaking. But people, please DO NOT read into my words too much. As I said, I want the best for my chin no matter how much money, time, and energy it will take. Of course this is under the condition that she is not suffering too much. So please only reply if you have some HELPFUL suggestions!

Thank you!

 

[Claire D]

Do you have photos of the xrays at all? Can you post them?

 

[lauralynne]

Wow, I did not see that coming, Tunes. I had no intention of harming my chin whether I have one baby or ten babies coming. I will do whatever it takes to get her well, like I did before. I was only complaining a little knowing that being a first time parent, taking care of the chin and the baby is going to take a huge toll on me and my husband. I do not want to go through or have Polly go through something that is not necessary.

At this moment, I do not know what is best for my chin other than wanting her to recover. That was why I wrote this long post asking for people's suggestions. Your post definitely did not help at all other than adding more frustration to me personally. If you read my post carefully, the spur was filed down by Dr. Greek. Neither he, nor the vet in Irvine, really knows what is wrong with her. He wants to go into her mouth by putting her under and going in more aggressively. But I am not so sure if that is the best way.

Anyway, I don't know if I am talking nonsense now because your post is making me a little upset. maybe it is just my crazy hormones speaking. But people, please DO NOT read into my words too much. As I said, I want the best for my chin no matter how much money, time, and energy it will take. Of course this is under the condition that she is not suffering too much. So please only reply if you have some HELPFUL suggestions!

Thank you!

I don't think Peggy was reading into your words too much. They way you phrased it made as though if she were going to require handfeeding again, you really didn't want to go that route because of your new baby coming.

I know how those pregnancy hormones go, and yes, they do make people more emotional. My kids are 8, 7, and almost 5 and I have 11 chinchillas and wouldn't hesitate to do go through this if that's what needed to be done for the chin.

If she continually has good and bad days, my thought would be to have her put under and complete xrays done so you know all your options. If the bad days are consistant enough, chances are that they are not going to go away, and the underlying cause needs to be found and addressed.

 

[Claire D]

I'm not going to address your outburst towards Peggy's post - but if you read it back again she was only expanding on your words in the post above - perhaps your true intent did not come across very well? I don't think Peggy is the only person to have interpreted your post/words in that way. It is worth considering that before you reply & get yourself upset.

To address your question though - your chin could be very sensitive to pain, the vet could have missed a spur, there could be infection present, or there could be more on the xray than your vet mentioned ............. there are numerous possibilities.

How much Metacam is she on?
How much food is she taking?

 

[eycamry]

Do you have photos of the xrays at all? Can you post them?

I only have the hard copies. The vet did not have the technology to scan them into the computer.

If she continually has good and bad days, my thought would be to have her put under and complete xrays done so you know all your options. If the bad days are consistant enough, chances are that they are not going to go away, and the underlying cause needs to be found and addressed.

She did have complete xrays taken by the vet in Irvine. I took the xrays to Dr. Greek. He looked at them and did not find anything wrong.

How much Metacam is she on?
How much food is she taking?

She is on 0.4ml of metacam once a day. She is weighing 1 lb 4oz.
I am feeding her 3 times a day, 20cc - 30cc each time. CC + LL + probiotics. Her weight has maintained so far.

 

[Claire D]

I only have the hard copies. The vet did not have the technology to scan them into the computer.

Can you put them onto a light box & photograph them? That should be good enough if you've got steady hands

She did have complete xrays taken by the vet in Irvine. I took the xrays to Dr. Greek. He looked at them and did not find anything wrong.

Did he explain what he could see at all? Did he suggest why she had spurs if she does not have root or crown problems?
Sometimes it is helpful to photograph the xrays, put them onto a PC & spend some time comparing them to "normal" or healthy dental xrays - it's a good learning tool.
Also, sometimes a different pair of eyes can see things which get overlooked (not saying that is what has happened BTW).

She is on 0.4ml of metacam once a day. She is weighing 1 lb 4oz.
I am feeding her 3 times a day, 20cc - 30cc each time. CC + LL + probiotics. Her weight has maintained so far.

Is that dog or cat Metacam? That's a high does for a 560g chin who has no root problems & just a small spur & a small ulcer.
It might be worth asking the vet if you can split the dose - some chins do well on twice daily pain relief rather than once a day.

 

[ticklechin]

When she had the tooth filed, was she put under then and had a complete exam? If it was only last tues she had it done, in my experience it may be too soon to expect any improvement. Some chins have more sensitive teeth than others when filed and if the vet uses a slow speed drill to file, it causes alot of heat and the nerve tissue inside can become sensitive. Vet dentists use a high speed drill which causes less problems, so if this is a regular vet it could be the case she needs more time. I would feed and wait a couple of weeks.

 

[eycamry]

When she had the tooth filed, was she put under then and had a complete exam? If it was only last tues she had it done, in my experience it may be too soon to expect any improvement. Some chins have more sensitive teeth than others when filed and if the vet uses a slow speed drill to file, it causes alot of heat and the nerve tissue inside can become sensitive. Vet dentists use a high speed drill which causes less problems, so if this is a regular vet it could be the case she needs more time. I would feed and wait a couple of weeks.

I apologize for confusing everyone. Here is a clearer time line:

March 11 Polly was put under --- complete physical, blood work & xrays. Vet found a minor ulcer on her cheek and put her on PTS. No filing done. Blood work came back normal. I've started giving her CC + LL. She was willing to eat it off a spoon.

March 23 Polly was still drooling. I took her to see Dr. Greek and took the xrays with me. Dr. Greek did not see anything wrong with her except for a small spur on one of her tooth. He filed it down with a small hand tool without putting her under, and precribed Metacam.

March 28 Polly seemed a lot better and was very active during playtime.

March 29 evening She stopped eating CC/LL off of a spoon. I started force feeding her with a syringe.

March 31 Her condition as of today: No more drooling; pretty active; weight maintained; but still not eating on her own. Poop is smaller and less than two days ago, but solid.

My husband thinks that it is better to wait a week or two before taking her in again, since she has stopped drooling. Going to the vet really really stresses her out. However, knowing that chins can go downhill very quickly, I want to get opinions from experienced owners.

 

[ticklechin]

If she was really drooley when she was put under for the oral exam the vet could have easily missed rear cheek teeth spurs, if she does not improve in a couple of weeks she should be put under again for a recheck.