Kit Born with no Veiling?

[aznmexaggie]

I had a pure standard pair (extra dark standard female x dark standard male) just litter today and among the two kits is one very light gray kit with nearly no veiling. This pair has had two litters in the past, all born very dark at birth with heavy veiling over the back. The sire also has only had very dark kits born to litters with his other mates (also standard females)

This baby is very light and I've never had a standard kit born with such little veiling. It's odd. She also is very thin with a long skinny tail and seems to have some trouble with control of her back legs. Once she has them under her, she kind of hobbles along, but she is quite wobbly.

So here's a picture of her and her sister. She was born at 43 g and the sister was born at 54 g.

Any thoughts? Has anyone had a kit born with little veiling? Is it likely to come in over time?

 

[Megan]

I've had something similar happen twice. Each time I noticed that the kit in question was smaller then its sibling, didn't gain weight like its sibling did. The one kit in question ended up passing by 5 weeks of age. I let him go and didn't do any heroic measures to save him as I wasn't sure what was going on with him. To me, he looked and acted like a "true dwarf" (according to the ranchers in my area) chinchilla. They have a smooshed in face, smaller, can't walk as easily, and just don't thrive. This is what he resembled.

I currently have a 2nd kit on a mom right now. The kit again was born with no veiling, is smaller then its sibling, and isn't growing likes its sibling. It's sibling is the size of a normal, healthy kit and is barely nursing at this point. The kit in question is thriving better then my previous experience, but doesn't have the "dwarf" signs I mentioned above. It wasn't the best on it's feet when first born. She's as fast as lightening now, great on her feet, perked up but just doesn't want to grow. I'm thinking about weaning her sibling at 6 weeks and letting this one nurse on her own to see if that helps. This is a TOTALLY unrelated breeding then the above mentioned breeding.

Don't know what it is, only seen it twice.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

what exactly does a true dwarf look like? The reason I ask is because I have this mom who has consistly produced nice size kits. Her last litter of triplets were 59, 62, 60 grams and all gained well right from the beginning. She just had another litter, different male, and I got a 62 gram kit and a 41 gram kit. The larger kit is well into his 80's now (they are just a week old today) and the other only weighs 47 grams. Mom has no issue with milk supply. This kit looks like a mouse. He does have veiling-he's just tiny. And I don't think he is as quick as his sibling.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

Here are the pics of my kit in question taken this morning. He weighs 48 gr today. His sister weighs 82 gr. His tummy is full all the time. Doesn't feel skinny in the least.

I also find his paw stripes weird. Maybe I am looking to much into it. Mom is a beige and dad is a black velvet.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I wish I had an answer for you. I've got a kit that lacks veiling too and is really off color but he is normal in other ways. First one I have had but he is out of a white and a standard and I am not sure if that makes a difference. All my pure standards have had veiling.

 

[aznmexaggie]

I will try to get more pictures of her but she has an extremely mousey look to her face. Her face is really long and her ears are so big (and stick up, compared to most kits whose ears are practically plastered to the side of their head at birth). And then, that tail! It is so thin! She has a very lanky look to her... although that may just be because she didn't get as much of the nutrients as her sibling did, perhaps because of her position in utero?

It's strange. We'll see how she grows.

I also recently had a litter (pure standard x hetero beige pairing) that gave me two beiges, one normal-looking standard and one standard with a beige hue over its back. I am guessing it must be one of those "cinnamon babies" which are born with a brownish tinge and clear up over time. They're 12 days old now and her color is still the same.

I'm just having a lot of strange occurrences this year.

 

[mishellyshel]

I have no experience in breeding and probably shouldnt even be commenting but i am just curious..........is it possible that just as in the human race, that the chinchilla can be born with some type of dwarfism or even like a downs syndrome or other type of chromosomal disorder?? as in our race, it is completely random & sometimes without reason. (obviously their are genetic issues with most).

 

[aznmexaggie]

Yes, it is possible. Just like in humans, chins can also have errors in DNA transcription (which is how mutations come about). Most are probably detrimental resulting in death or anatomical abnormalities or abnormalities in the internal organs, but sometimes, they just may affect the phenotype of the animal without altering the vital processes of the body.

I was actually wondering about this in this chin. She really has an odd look to her. I was telling my mom that she has the face of a special needs chin.

Dwarfism is known to exist in chins as a recessive gene. There are some who do breed for dwarves.

 

[mishellyshel]

Thanks for the explanation.
I hope she makes it. Special needs chins need loving homes too!

 

[Snickers]

Maybe things will go better for her. I can say I never seen anything like that. Maybe this is the year for strange colors.

I have 2 bv babies born on 05/30 they have the mask but their bodies are not so black like all the bv that have been born here.

 

[Megan]

This will stir up some people, and has in the past.

The ranchers I speak of do not believe in the "dwarves" people are selling. They consider them simply a small chin, and a gimmick to make money.

What they consider a true dwarf is pretty similar to what I explained. They are a genetic "fluke". They are born small, don't develop quite like a normal chin, aren't very active--normally just sitting around and not moving like other normal, healthy, kits do. They were described to me of having a face similar to a pug--a smooshed in head/face. They don't thrive, and normally pass within a few days to a few weeks.

 

[starleomach]

No veiling is not a sign of dwarfism. I have had kits born with no veiling. sometimes it comes in late sometimes they just go to pet homes. I have one dwarf here and she is really not normal. She lived to adulthood and didn't thrive as a kit. she is not normal but is happy

 

[Brittany_Lynn]

There is a thread about dwarf chins here and as far as I can see by reading the posts, it seems that true dwarf chinchillas have feet about half the size of normal chinchillas, especially their back feet. Perhaps you can compare the 80g sister's foot to the potential dwarf baby, maybe take a photo of the feet next to each other. The smooshed in face obviously doesn't become prominent until much later in the kit's development.

 

[aznmexaggie]

Just to clear things up, the kit born to me without veiling is just small and thin. She does not have any dwarf characteristics. She just looks elongated and ratty to me and of course, has almost no veiling.

The kit born to Godin's Chinchillas is what brought up dwarfism, although her kit looks normal to me.

 

[Megan]

Brit, those are not the "true dwarf" chinchillas that I am talking about. The rancher in question would refer to those animals as simply small chins. The dwarves in which I am talking about are born, clearly knowing what they are at the time of birth due to the different look of them, don't thrive and die within a few days to a week. It's not a "ahh look how cute", it's a genetic defect that pops up once in a BLUE moon and the kit doesn't thrive. Not to mention why would people breed for a genetic defect in an animal like they do with these "dwarf" chinchillas is beyond me!

Sumiko-- I pulled my kit out last night. She has a very "mousey" look like you and Jessica both described, her tail is still very thin and not puffy like that of her sibling, face is quite long and descended, and her ears are fairly big. Fur quality is not the greatest, and her fur looks fairly weak. No idea what she is. Ill try to grab pictures of her and her litter mate this evening.

 

[Spoof]

She just looks underbaked to me. Have seen that a couple times, if they don't catch up with the sibling by weaning, they always have afterwards.

There are many different types of dwarfism, genetic and otherwise. The one I see pop up in chins - if you took x-rays the skull and body would be stunted, compact, and sometimes deformed. If you were to feel the little girl I have here, you'd notice differences in how her skull, shoulders and hips are formed.

millyshel - I'm sure those things have occurred in chins, we don't have common diagnostics abilities to diagnose such things. In the places most likely for it to pop up and be obvious, they get rid of them without bothering to look into "the why" further than splitting the parents.

 

[KissThis]

She looks half-baked to me as well. I have had a few that come out, where it was obviously a duel pregnancy, with some of the kits normal sized and then one that is definitely a few weeks behind in development. Some of the underdone ones thrive eventually and completely catch up to their siblings, some don't at all. Hopefully she thrives and catches up. If she never does develop good veiling, but is nice in every other way, she might be good in a white line or with one of the recessives.

 

[aznmexaggie]

Here are some more pictures of this little girl. She is now 1 week old. Her fur is getting a strange wooly and slightly wiry texture to it on her back. Maybe it's because her fur is thin...

She is very fast and zips around the cage although she is a little shaky when standing still. It seems like the toes of her back feet are often curled a bit and sometimes she still drags her rear left foot when she zips away. She is pretty adorable though. I've been calling her Mousey, lol. Her face isn't actually as ratty-looking as I thought it was on day 1 and her ears don't look quite as large either.

Mousey walking around

My camera is dead and I borrowed my dad's camera which did some odd things with the brightness and color values... she's not really that light

Look at that fur texture

 

[Stackie]

She is definitely different looking from other kits I have seen. Is her fur soft like normal fur or does it feel wiry as well? I hope she continues to do well and I am very curious to see what she looks like in the future.

 

[Spoof]

Looks just like a couple I've seen. One became normal, the other was mousy looking compared to her two other siblings - but survived just fine. Fur should push out by weaning or first prime.