Hay 101

[SCchin]

Hi all,
Our 5 1/2 y/o male chin (Quito) had major teeth filing last Thursday.

I will be one to give the Pet Smart info sheet a minus number..... we were NEVER told that the diet had to have mostly hay, I was allergic to the Kaytee Timothy Hay and took it back, and they didn't say I had to find one that worked. He has only had occasional alfalfa cubes. Our poor chin's mouth was a mess, it took the vet almost two hours to correct the uneven wear and Quito had a large mouth ulcer from his upper teeth razor cutting him. He took three days of metacam and will be on SMZ antibiotic for a week.

Immediately upon waking from anesthesia, he ate tons of orchard grass. The vet wants 80% of his diet to be hay and a tablespoon of pellets (we use Sunaturals) as well, and if he doesn't eat the pellets, we need to do emergency feed. Friday he ate very little hay, and no pellets. So yesterday, we fed a little of the emergency feed. I teased him with a raisin and oats to see if he can chew, and he can.... Last night he started eating a little hay again. Through all of this he has been alert and playful, but looks pretty pitiful after the surgery (dopey, goopy eyes from the gel the vet used, and swollen cheeks).

The question is I know nothing about how much hay a chinchilla eats, and if there is supposed to be any left in the cage. It looks like he nibbles on what he wants and leaves most of it behind. So its hard to tell if he is eating much. He weighs around 680 g, the vet says he can easily be 750-800 g. We have Oxbow Orchard Grass right now.

What kinds of hay can he try? Is oat grass ok? Should I get a variety and mix or offer them at different times? It is good to see that I may be able to tolerate a different brand of timothy hay, but the vet did let me sniff the oxbow, it is strong to me and tickled my nose.

Also, Quito is not happy about the diet change. Sunaturals has treats in it, I think he may have been eating the treats and leaving the pellets. Thankfully most of the treats are plant things and there isn't a lot of dried fruit. So I need creative ideas to switch him over to the correct diet because it in no way resembles his former diet....

Susan at AZchinnies, you can disregard my email!! I found you here

 

[tunes]

Part of the problem is also the pellets you use. That junk from a pet store is just that, junk. There are 2 kinds of feeds you can get at a pet store that are worth more than the package they are in: Oxbow and Mazuri. Of the two, Oxbow would be my first choice. Get him on a better pellet and that is also going to help with his overall health, as well as his teeth. Cold turkey him over to a better pellet. As long as you provide bunches of hay, he can eat that until he decides to stop being picky over the loss of the junk pellets.

You can use timothy, orchard grass, oat - all kinds of different hays. I would not go crazy on Alfalfa because it's very high in calcium. With his teeth issues, I would definitely offer him some, I just wouldn't make that my primary hay choice or you might end up worrying about him developing stones.

I personally offer timothy hay, because I have too many chins to order enough to offer them all of the "fun" hays like the oat, etc.

Sometimes my chins eat every bite of hay, other times they leave some behind. I think it just depends on their mood. Offering a variety of hay may keep his interest spiked enough that he won't leave much behind.

 

[RDZCRanch]

I second Peggy's advice. I just have two things to add.

Alfalfa seems to be a big hit with chinchilla's that have teeth problems. The biggest thing you need to do is get him to eat a large amount of hay, like the vet said so he can wear down the molars. Alfalfa and other high calcium items are thought to be the cause of stones but there is no physical evidence to back up the speculation. In most animals, stones are hereditary and have a lot more to do with low water intake.

You should also stop giving raisins as a treat. They are high in sugar like all dried fruits and chinchilla's digestive systems are not made to handle fruits. They come from a high desert area where fruits and vegetables are not readily available, they mainly survive on dry grasses.

I personally hate Sunaturals and any of the pet foods with treats in them. Oxbow and Mazuri are both readily available at pet stores and actually good for your chinchilla. Sunaturals DOES have dried fruits in it. They are listed in the ingredients and clearly visible in the food. There is dehydrated apple, cranberry, goji berry, and dehydrated strawberries. Dehydrating them does not decrease the amount of sugar they contain, it just takes out the moisture so they are still very dangerous for a chinchilla. Switching cold turkey to Oxbow or Mazuri would be your best option and just offer extra hay.

 

[ticklechin]

Malo chins should not have anything sweet, they are prone to periodontal disease and the sugar just ads to the problem. Alfalfa is a 1st choice hay for malo chins, I have always fed mine alfalfa along with other hays and they will eat the alfalfa and only play with the other hays.

 

[AZChins]

Hey! Welcome to the forum!

Sorry, I haven't gotten to my email this weekend.

I hope that you can get him to eat his hay soon. I like to give out a few types of hay when chins aren't seeming to eat the hay I normally give out. Oat hay is fine. I give burmuda and alfalfa and timothy and sometimes orchard grass or whatever other grass hay I can find.

Grass hays like the burmuda or Orchard grass are very good for the digestive system. If you can get him to enjoy those, that would be great. I'm not a huge fan of all alfalfa, but if that's what the chin will eat and he likes it then I guess that's what he will have to have...maybe temporarily?

I just hope he gets better as soon as possible!

 

[SCchin]

Thanks all, any more advice is very welcome.

I went to PetSmart, and got small bags of Oxbow Timothy Hay, Oat Hay, Orchard Grass, and Alfalfa Hay so Quito can sample them and I can see what he likes. I also got Mazurri pellets, the Oxbow they had expires in one month and the Mazurri in 2012.

Here's hoping this works. I don't know how well Quito is going to like the new diet, and he just came out of surgery..... we do have the critical care to supplement. He won't be stubborn and lose more weight when he is supposed to be gaining it? I just don't want to send him downhill.

 

[SCchin]

Update - devouring timothy hay.

We have one he likes!

Of course he picks the one I might be allergic to. But I didn't sneeze, maybe it was the Kaytee brand, let's hope!

I thought it would be better to offer the timothy first instead of the "jury is out alfalfa."

 

[tunes]

Most chins really like the timothy hay. Mine go nuts over it, especially Oxbow. I've not had any luck getting them to really dig in to any hay I've gotten from another supplier.

As Dawn stated, you should give alfalfa for a dental chin. My comments were just to give it in moderation. Alfalfa is a much richer hay than timothy, and with that being the first I've ever heard that stones developing is due to a hereditary issue, it has always been a rule of thumb that an alfalfa based pellet should be fed with timothy hay. I was told by my mentor (a vet with many, many years of breeding experience, as was his father, as well as being a judge) not to use alfalfa hay, to use a timothy or a brome type hay, and the timothy has always worked well for me.

 

[Essentia]

If you can tell he isn't eating well keep supplementing the CC. His mouth no doubt hurts after the teeth filing. Usually I have to use CC for 3 days after a tooth filing and then they start eating on their own again. I agree with the others who said to try a bunch of different hays to see what he likes. Most chins LOVE oat hay. Because his mouth hurts right now you may not get a good reading on what he likes. Once he starts eating really well on his own again try all the hays again and you should get a better idea of what he likes.

I use timothy hay as my staple. Every other day I switch it up to keep them wanting the different hays and to overall just give them more variety.

Monday- Timothy
Tuesday- Oat
Wednesday- Timothy
Thursday- Orchard Grass
Friday- Timothy
Saturday- Alfalfa
Sunday- Oat

This isn't something you have to do by any means. For me it just makes my guys consume more hay which is exactly what I want them to do.

 

[SCchin]

He ate two of the mazuri pellets last night, I had to hand feed them, but at least he liked them.

He still wants CC, he LOVES it... he doesn't eat nearly as much as the chin in the youtube clip, though. He is eating some hay. He leaves a lot still..... maybe his teeth are still hurting. The vet said metacam for three days, but I am still giving it, I think he still hurts. Five year catch up for teeth filing probably doesn't feel too good...

BTW, about how much hay does a chin eat in one day?

 

[tunes]

Five year catch up for teeth filing probably doesn't feel too good...

Keep in mind that healthy teeth should never need filed, so you really aren't doing any "catching up." Normal, healthy chinchilla teeth get worn down through eating pellets, hay, and munching on wood, and they never need to see the vet for treatment.

You'll have to just keep an eye on him and see what his hay ingestion is. Some of mine only eat a small handful, others would be happy if I threw in 10 pounds. I generally give a good sized handful for the single cages, and go up from there into the colonies.

 

[ticklechin]

Be careful with the CC, chins can become "addicted" to it and will hold out. I would start to wean him off after 7 days, cut out the evening meal, then lunch and finally breakfast and watch his weight, he may slip some but it should remain relatively steady.


He may need future filings, so always watch the weight steady. My two lazy chewers go 6 month to a year or so between filings, the first sign they are due is slow weight loss.

 

[SCchin]

Thanks.

He has not had hay in all of his 5 1/2 years, I didn't know..... so that is why I said catch up. He did chew all sorts of wood, coconut shell, baseboards, table legs, that is why he can't leave the cage because he is definitely a chewer. I was told the alfalfa cubes were enough, and he didn't chew them a lot. We knew something was up because he wasn't chewing.

What kind of scale can I get?

And, I do think he is addicted to the CC, but he doesn't take that much. It is replacing the pellets right now.

Do your chins need to be put out for their filings? That was one very expensive vet bill...

 

[ticklechin]

Mine are put under, 230.00 for the pair. How much CC are you feeding a day? Full time feeding after a filing is 60ml+ a day, some chins can take up to 120ml a day.

 

[SCchin]

Mine are put under, 230.00 for the pair. How much CC are you feeding a day? Full time feeding after a filing is 60ml+ a day, some chins can take up to 120ml a day.

Our bill was $560. :wacko: They had already taken him to the back, and then told me the estimate (after looking at him w/o sedation). I did get it down by $100 by turning down the stool analysis and bloodwork or it would have been higher. We traveled two hours because our town isn't large enough for an exotic vet that works on chinchillas. I just couldn't leave him and we didn't have any other options. He was in good shape, playing, jumping, we caught it before he got bad. The anesthesia was $200, IV was $75, X-rays $85, 2 hrs. surgery $90, meds $50, CC $18, plus a few odds and ends. We have to go back in three months. We are not rich... and cannot do this often...

He isn't eating a lot of CC, 5-10 mL/day. He is eating some hay, but I can't tell how much (it looks like he eats off what he wants and leaves the rest). He isn't drinking water, so that 5-10 mL is watery for his fluids. He seems quite happy, but still sleepy. He is jumping all over the cage, and goes up to my daughter's shoulder when she holds him.

I probably need a scale, what kind do you suggest?

 

[SCchin]

I found a spring scale at a science supply for $3.95. It goes up to 1000 g. How would that be? We could put him in something and lift it and see his weight. Sneeky!

 

[ticklechin]

YOWZA, that was WAY too much $$, but you had no choice. I have watched filings many times, extreme cases of malo and the longest it took was 20 min. Anesthesia cost 70.00, haz waste 5.00 and the procedure 40.00. This is with a exotic vet dentist. Digital scales work best since you are tracking a few grams.

 

[SCchin]

I was doing good to find the exotic vet. I will see if I can find an exotic vet dentist.

Essentia in Jax, is that what you have?

Where is the best deal on the digital scale?

Thanks!

 

[Essentia]

I got my digital scale at walmart in the kitchenware section. It is made by Mainstays and was $20.

I use Dr Hart at Hidden Hills Animal Hospital. He is a vet that also works with wildlife, mainly squirrels. I honestly don't remember the total for me since it has been awhile, but I just sent someone there 2 days ago and her bill came to $153 which included the office visit, sedation, filing, and an antibiotic for an infection he had going on in his mouth.

There is also another member here who uses the Exotic Bird Hospital in Jacksonville, FL and swears by them for teeth filing. I have never used them because I have been happy with Dr. Hart, but I know her filings come to $212 (or right around there).

 

[SCchin]

Back to diet, I am still not sure he is eating enough, but he does seem happy.

Is it possible that we have a lower appetite chin? He weighed 680 g at the vet. When we fed the CC today, he took about 5 mL but then pushed it away. He is eating some hay, there is maybe half left of a small handful each day.