Has anyone seen or heard of stone development due to calf manna

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Calf manna has no more calcium in it than chinchilla pellets, its the high protein and lack of fiber that makes it suck among other things such as corn. So if you are thinking its because of the calcium, its not. Chins develope stones for many reasons, from heredity, from infection, from dehydration or from whatever, the stone needs to be analyzed first to determine the composition and from there even with diet changes they can come back. Its a myth that manna is a calcium supplement that has been around for years and years.

Ingredients:
Soybean Meal, Corn, Hominy Feed, Feeding Oatmeal, Dried Whey, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Linseed Meal, Brewer's Dried Yeast, Vegetable Oil, Fenugreek Seed, Anise Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Sulfur, Iron Oxide, Ferrous Carbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Niacin Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Propionic Acid.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 25.00%, Lysine (min.) 1.4%, Methionine (min.) 0.3%, Crude Fat (min.) 3.0%, Crude Fiber (min.) 3.0%, Crude Fiber (max.) 6.00%, Acid Detergent Fiber (max.) 10.0%, Calcium (min.) 0.7%, Calcium (max.) 1.2%, Phosphorus (min.) 0.6%, Salt (min.) 0.5%, Salt (max.) 1.0%, Sodium (min.) 0.2%, Sodium (max.) 0.4%, Copper (min.) 15 ppm, Copper (max.) 35 ppm, Selenium (min.) 0.1 ppm, Zinc (min.) 125 ppm, Vitamin A (min.) 20,000 IU/lb.
 
I had a few customers years ago when using large amounts of calf manna was in style that had chins develop stones. It didn't seem to take very long for this to happen. One chin in particular was freely fed calf manna in a dish separate from his feed, and the owner limited pellets in order to force the chin to eat more calf manna. He developed a sizable stone in the course of maybe three to four months. It seems that once people stopped feeding the calf manna in such large amounts the occurrence of stones wasn't nearly as great.
 
When too much protein is consumed, it causes excess calcium excretion which can lead to kidney stones. Too much protein can also lead to excess uric acid building up in the kidneys again causing stones. Kidney stones can be caused by many different things, or a combination of different things. Stones are not just calcium either, they can be calcium, uric acid, cysteine, struvite, or any other mineral that can build up in excess in the kidneys.
 
Hmmm, interesting. Those were my thoughts too. I had a friend whose 1 yr old male just dropped dead. Unfortunately I couldn't get it necropsied for her as the timing was bad. The chin was acting normal before it died. The only thing that changed was the consumption of calf manna. He was on it for 4-6 weeks. So I've been tossing ideas in my head. A ruptured bladder due to stone blockage in the penis was one of my thoughts. As well as a cardiac event.
 
That's about the same time frame for developing stones that people experienced back in 2002 or 2003ish. Not all chins will get stones from it, of course. Just a few that seem to have the problem for whatever reason. It almost always seems to occur with males, as well. I don't know why that would be. Poor chin, getting a stone caught in the urethra is very painful. :(

I really wish that people wouldn't use more than a few pellets of calf manna with any chin. With the young chins you can put size on them rather quickly with calf manna but the damage that it can cause isn't worth the risks.
 
I think we see more stones in males is because the urethra is small and they are getting stuck. Whereas in the female the urethra is larger so any small stones are being urinated out.
 
That makes sense. :) I haven't seen any stones in females, or I don't think I have. I'd have to go through my records and see if I have had a female chin in to the vet for a bladder stone. It's been awhile since I have had a chin with stones, the last one was a male rescue.
 
It's the same for people, more men develop stones than women. I was always told that it is because kidney stones are the closest pain to child birth that a man can experience, so it's payback.
 
A male's urethra is also significantly longer, giving more length for it to be caught in as it has further to go before it can be passed.
 
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