chinchillas grieving

[ann1]

I wasnt really sure where to put this thread so moderaters if this isnt a good place for it feel free to move it.
My question is who thinks chinchillas grieve? For a lost kit or lost mate?
My story; this morning we lost one of our male chins. The story starts yesterday when I noticed a very very small bit of blood on his nose which I thought was weird. I wasnt overly concerned but concerned enough to make a vet appt. just to make sure he was ok. (He is the son of my avater and special to me) He was acting ok but didnt really seem interested in eating. I checked his weight and it was normal for him and gave him a once over and he appeared ok or so I thought. I didnt see any other blood or anything. I was almost thinking about canceling his appt. This morning I awoke and went to check on everyone and noticed what I thought was him sleeping with his mate cuddled up with him. I went to say hi and the female jumped but not him. He was still alive but seemed unconscious (im guessing shock now) I picked him up and he felt cold. I knew he was dying and I freaked and ran got my hubby and we tried calling the vet. My only thought now is that he must of had some kind of trauma (either from falling or maybe their wheel) it had to of been internally because like I said there was only a small bit of blood visable and nothing else.

The female (her name is angel) I've had her since birth (she was from a litter of quads and got picked on and I ended up hand rearing her so she and I have a close bond) She just kept staring at me as if I was gonna save him. When i put him back in there to call the vet real quick she immediately went back to laying on him. We knew he wasnt going to make it but had to try. Well he passed away in a matter of mins and now she keeps looking at me as if to bring him back. She hasnt left the spot he was in all day and everytime i pass by her cage she hold onto the bars of the cage and just looks at me. I know she is sad.
This same female lost a kit a few yrs ago and did the same exact thing only she histerically ran around the cage everytime i passed her. I tried to let her smell the kit (thinking she would realize it was dead) but she wasnt willing to except it and had that same look on her face like "come on mom, do your magic and bring it back. I never felt so bad as I did then.
Chinchillas seem to be very intelligent to me and I know they grieve. I was just wondering what everyone elses thought were?
Also I would just like to say good bye to my good buddy "raisen or baby raisen as we sometimes called him. He was a awesome chin with a great personality and I will miss him dearly. I will also take away the knowledge that sometimes when it may appear that nothing is wrong to go with your gut feeling or just to make sure everything is ok and to go IMMEDIATELY to the vet. r.i.p. "raisen" your in chinny heaven with your mommy now.

 

[alli713]

I think it depends on the chin. Some are more independent than others. For instance, I had Kona and Mei together since Kona was a weaned baby. So they were together for about 2 years. Then I had to put Mei down due to malo. Kona never acted depressed or anything, she didn't seem to care that she was alone. But she was always dominant and a diva, so I don't think she was dependent on Mei. However they never fought, not even on an intro so I do know they enjoyed each other's company.

 

[mishellyshel]

sorry for your loss. rip raisen.

i do believe chins and other animals grieve. it took my dog more than 1 year to snap out of her funk when my golden and her bestest friend died. after separating 2 chins that fought, they both seem depressed and watch each other from their cages. but snickers is definitely "more" sad. i think that oreo is kinda happy he is alone! lol so i do also think it depends on the chin.

i hope angel can make a new friend real soon.

 

[starleomach]

Some chinchillas seem to grieve while others seem fine. I have with one female in particular given her a baby when she lost hers..it was an older baby. I find that the animals that grieve make great foster moms, they tend to cuddle with even the hopeless cases. Maybe a friend for her would be best

 

[AZChins]

I know that they pine for cagemates that aren't there anymore. I'm not sure if they understand that they are dead, but they certainly will miss another chin once it is gone. I've had chins that lose weight and act mopey for days when they lose their friends. I've also had mama chins lose kits that completely go insane.

I'm sorry you lost your boy. He was so special to you and then he was just gone. The blood can indicate different things, not necessarily just trauma, but they normally have symptoms other than just the blood when it is something else. There's no way that you could have known that it was a big deal. I know how you feel. I hope that your Angel is alright.

 

[Lynn & The Chins]

I am certain that they understand and grieve.

I have told my story about when Baby died suddenly and unexpectedly in my arms. I was crying and very upset, and Mr. Whiskers was sitting in his cage watching me on the couch. I let him sniff Baby's limp, little body while telling him that he had died. I explained that he was going away (back to the Vet) and that we wouldn't be bringing him back.

Whiskers and I each grieved in our own way for weeks, and then we got My Little Snuggler. After quarantine and introductions, they became bonded and I think that Mr. Whiskers was very happy to have a new cagemate.

I think that it is important to actually tell them what has happened. I don't know how, but I do believe that they understand, and it helps them deal with the loss.

I'm so sorry for your and Angel's loss of Raisin.

 

[cindyv3737]

I'm so sorry for your loss. RIP Raisen

 

[Laurie]

Not only do I think they grieve they know when we are grieving. I have a very sassy girl chin, Bobo--my first chin. She does not like any interaction at all outside of her cage. When my sister died in July from breast cancer I had finally come home after being gone for a week as we with her and caring for her up until the last breath she took. I came home, fell in front of Bobo and GiGi's cage and just cried. Bobo came to the front of the cage and sat as close to me as she could. She didn't bark or kack as she normally does. She let me pet her through the cage bars--which she doesn't allow at all--usually she bites. I know she knew my heart was broken, so I absolutely think they know who is grieving as well as how to grieve themselves.

I'm sorry you lost your boy--but believe me when I say he knew he was loved by you.

 

[warmice]

I think they do. If Chins can watch TV and Listens to radio, I'm sure they know what's happening.

I'm so sorry for your loss. RIP Raisen

 

[3CsMommy]

I'm so sorry you lost Raisin. You're not alone in thinking they've got a certain understanding of our moods and emotions all their own.

My guy was part of a pair that had to be split when my ex boyfriend of 3 years kicked me out. (I wasn't about to leave my guy there when my ex's job had him out of town 5 days straight every week, but my ex wouldn't let me take them both.) Crash went through the separation as well as a 3 hr. move all on the same day back in September, and he's only just now starting to act like himself again. He was my cuddlier of the two, always on my shoulder or head during playtime, asking for chest rubs when I went past the cage, but it's only been the last month or so that he's started sitting on my lap during playtime again. I haven't been groomed once that I recall since we moved.

I know he misses living with another chin, but the way life has kicked me around for the past few months, he's going to be a singleton for a while longer. One day when I was in a crap mood I looked at him and asked if he still loved me and I'll swear he looked surprised to hear it. So I told him that I was worried because he hasn't been cuddly and sweet like he was before and I didn't want him to be mad at me about moving. He sat in my lap for the first time since the move that night.

They know something. They have to. There are too many stories like these for us to underestimate their intelligence or perception.

 

[Brittany]

I'm so sorry for your baby! Lily grieved for awhile when her playmate Donna died. She was very mopey and slept for longer periods of time. While I'm sure that they don't understand our words of comfort I think they definitely respond to love, scritches, and extra attention.

 

[ann1]

I would like to start off first by saying thanks to you all for your kind words. It is very hard to loose our furry children and "especially hard" when your sooo bonded with them.
I have had raisen since birth and as stated he was the first born of my beloved "chinny" (yes that was her name....not to original i know) he and angel had been a bonded pair for at least 4 or 5 yrs and i know she loved him. You can tell when 2 chins love each other cuz they cuddle a lot and preen each other and generally spend a lot of time together.
I have also had chins that probably didnt love each other soo much. They are only together cuz they really have no choice in the matter. These chins tend to not snuggle sooo much and dont preen as often (thats what i call it when they clean each other...lol) they also tend to sleep in seperate parts of the cage whenever possible
i know unless you own a chin i probably sound like a crack head. Lol...heck i may even sound like one to some of you anyhow....

my point is this tho, i think depending on their love (or lack there of) may make a difference in their grieving. I also dont think it has to be a male/female or mother/kit relationship to grieve cuz i have a couple sisters (chinnies last two babies born before she passed) that im almost certain would grieve should one of them pass (knock on wood) they have been together since birth
angel has not left that spot in the cage still. Hasnt seemed to have ate much either. She seems very mopey and depressed. She still keeps stairing at me with that look on her face. I think she may even be a little mad at me. I took her out last night and she gave me a love bite (a bite that is not super hard) she never does that.

My daughter, my son and i decided to let her play on my bed for a little bit (of coarse heavily watched by all of us 3) they made her a small fort out of a blanket that she could run to if scared. She didnt much want to play and pretty much stayed in her fort. I decided i would go get one of the babies out that are almost ready to be weaned, just to see if she was interested. I of coarse held the baby at first just in case she decided to be aggresive. The baby made the usual "im a baby" noise and she seemed a little shocked and kind of puzzled and she ran back to her fort. She acted like she wasnt interested but i could see her keeping eye on him from a distance. Whenever he would get close she would take a sniff then run. She did this for awhile and she finally started to make peeping noises at him and gave him a quick groom (more like a lick or two)
idk if i want to or even should try introducing them when he is weaned. Idk if she was taking a small interest in him cuz he was a baby or cuz he was a male. Im thinking i should wait. He would make a good mate for her and comes from quality parents but i really cant see her with anyone other then raisen. I know thats me putting human emotion into it but still.
There is a small possibilty she may be pregnant by raisen (im hoping so but she's not showing yet so idk) i loved my special little guy but i also love her. I want her to be happy again someday
i feel rotten about the whole thing. I feel guilty that i didnt take it more serious and that maybe had i taken him to the vet that day he would still be here. I am very sad and only want to try and make things right (at least for her) i just dont know how.

 

[caiti]

Chinchillas can recognize patterns. The intelligence of rodents is often underestimated. I think they react to a change in a pattern they have learned. I don't know if they grieve like we do and there's really no way for us to know. But they are responsive to events in their life, so if that's what you're asking then then yes.

 

[Brittany_Lynn]

I just lost Ivan a week ago, and when I had wrapped him up, I went back to finish cleaning Rodya's and what had been Ivan's shared cage. I opened it up and Rodya (Ivan's father) just sat there looking at me, waiting for me to put Ivan back, and I started crying again and said I was sorry, and then he hopped down to where he usually waits for food, I think to tell me it's okay. Idk. I put a little stuffed animal in there with him, but he didn't like it. He seems okay, I don't know though.
I apologized to Sonya, too, and she just kept looking at me, but I'm pretty sure she knows I'm sad (Ivan was my little miracle baby, I was heart broken when the accident happened), because she has been letting me scratch between her ears--usually she hates being touched, and kacks at me. Not since last week though. She's a sweetie.

Don't blame yourself about Raisen, I think many of us would have done the same.

 

[ann1]

Chinchillas can recognize patterns. The intelligence of rodents is often underestimated. I think they react to a change in a pattern they have learned. I don't know if they grieve like we do and there's really no way for us to know. But they are responsive to events in their life, so if that's what you're asking then then yes.

No that's not really what I was asking. I dont think their just responding because their pattern is broken. I DO think they grieve and I do think they bond with their mates and/or kits.
My question was if others thought they mourned the loss of a cage mate and/or a kit.
My question to you is why dont you think they are capable of grieving?

 

[ann1]

Well i think my angel is starting to calm down a little but. She still sits in the spot but she has left it a time or two and she's not as bad with the paws on the cage and the sad look but she keeps calling out and im not sure if its to him or what. Kind of a different noise then im used to. Its still pretty sad but i hope she's adjusting.....i know i still miss him dearly.

 

[caiti]

My question to you is why dont you think they are capable of grieving?

First off, I realized I was so wrapped up in your question I was too insensitive to give my condolences for your chin, Raisen. I am sorry.

It's not that I believe animals don't or do grieve--I'm saying how could anybody know either way?

But...I have never seen a chinchilla after it's cagemate left. I only own one and I've never had one before so I can't answer from experience about your specific situation. I think I took your question too black-and-white (I'm pretty much a literalist when I'm not being sarcastic and discussing something serious) and misunderstood what you were asking.