Ca sb 917

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RDZCRanch

RDZCRanch

RavenousDeadlyZombieChins
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
2,884
Location
California
So, it was just brought to my attention by a fellow chinchilla breeder that CA is passing a bill that pretty much kills the legitimate chinchilla breeders in CA. I'm told it has been signed and would be going into effect in January.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_0901-0950/sb_917_bill_20110218_introduced.html

This bill would provide, in addition and with specified
exceptions, that it shall be a crime, punishable as specified, for
any person to willfully sell, display, or offer for sale or give away
as part of a commercial transaction, a live animal on any street,
highway, public right-of-way, parking lot, carnival, or boardwalk.
The bill would provide that a notice describing the charge and the
penalty for a violation of this bill may be issued by a peace
officer, animal control officer, or humane officer. By creating a new
crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.


It lets them seize the animals in question and then they become forfeited to the officer that seized them. The only animal shows exempt are dog, cat and bird shows.

I see what they are trying to prevent, but in doing so, they are killing legitimate business transactions. This will hurt the ARBA shows very badly since they already deal with "humane officers" patrolling their shows looking for anything "off".

There are still ways to sell animals, but it adds more stress to those of us selling and makes us jump through hoops to get our animals to good homes.
 
It won't affect legitimate breeders.

597.4. (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to willfully sell,
display for sale, offer for sale, or give away as part of a
commercial transaction, a live animal on any street, highway, public
right-of-way, parking lot, carnival, or boardwalk.
Click to expand...
This has been put into effect to stop the illegal trafficking of animals on the street and at swap meets. For example, there is a HUGE problem in the garment district in LA where people are selling unweaned baby bunnies on the street, which of course die in the hands of the new owners.

They have also built in exceptions, which I would argue chin shows would fall under.

(e) This section shall not apply to the following:
. . .
(1) Events held by 4-H Clubs, Junior Farmers Clubs, or Future
Farmers Clubs.
. . .
(8) A cat show, dog show, or bird show, provided that all of the
following circumstances exist:
(A) The show is validly permitted by the city or county in which
the show is held.
(B) Each and every participant in the show complies with all
federal, state, and local animal welfare and animal control laws.
(C) The participant has written documentation of the payment of a
fee for the entry of his or her cat, dog, or bird in the show.
(D) The sale of a cat, dog, or bird occurs only on the premises
and within the confines of the show.
(E) The show is a competitive event where the cats, dogs, or birds
are exhibited and judged by an established standard or set of ideals
established for each breed or species.
Click to expand...
 
menagerie said:
It won't affect legitimate breeders.


This has been put into effect to stop the illegal trafficking of animals on the street and at swap meets. For example, there is a HUGE problem in the garment district in LA where people are selling unweaned baby bunnies on the street, which of course die in the hands of the new owners.

They have also built in exceptions, which I would argue chin shows would fall under.
Click to expand...

I believe it will affect legitimate breeders. It only takes one pro-active "humane officer" to stick to the letter of the law to ruin it for everyone.

Like I said, I'm not against what they are trying to stop and I understand what they are trying to stop. They don't take into consideration in there any small animal breeders or chinchilla breeders. The way it is worded now is cause for concern for anyone legitimately breeding small animals or chinchillas. This came to me mainly from rabbit and cavy forums that are worried about what this bill will do to their shows and their businesses.
 
597.4. (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to willfully sell,
display for sale, offer for sale, or give away as part of a
commercial transaction, a live animal on any street, highway, public
right-of-way, parking lot, carnival, or boardwalk.
Click to expand...
So you can still sell them in your house, storefront, wholesale and at private venues, etc. I'm not understanding how this will effect breeders unless they're on a public street or on public property.
 
Spoof said:
So you can still sell them in your house, storefront, wholesale and at private venues, etc. I'm not understanding how this will effect breeders unless they're on a public street or on public property.
Click to expand...

Many breeders meet people in parking lots or other public properties for convenience. It's not going to stop breeders selling animals but it does make it more difficult. They also cannot sell animals at shows since the majority of the small animal shows are held on county fairgrounds which are included in where you cannot sell which I believe is to try to stop the swap meet animal sellers.


Kathy, the rabbit community heard of the bill a month before it got passed I believe and they sent letters and called and tried to get it stopped. It was passed quietly overnight which is legal, but extremely shady and what they do to pass unpopular bills.
 
Going along with what Tab said, I've myself met folks in parking lots many times because I was on my way to or from somewhere. Technically, that's not selling out of my home. Others also prefer to meet away from their homes because they may be afraid of having strangers come to their house (single women, young breeders, etc.). I can see how that might be a cause for concern for them.

I understand your point Meanie, for sure, but I also understand where Tab is coming from.
 
I guess that's true - but they'd have to be awfully fast to catch you in a pass-n-go parking lot situation. I guess if someone met in the same lot all the time it might cause suspicion.

I suspect the bill is going to come down to enforcement. If they can't afford to pay the gov't workers to work a full week, who is going to foot the bill for this type of patrolling?
 
Tabitha...you should be alright. I think they just don't want people selling strange animals at the beach and in public places like out in front of the grocery store.

Still, what if there is that one overzealous person with authority and on a mission? That could be a problem. I hope they wouldn't come after someone dropping off chins with a new owner in a parking lot! Of course, it may be fun to see me or Peggy in handcuffs for violating this on COPS! :D
 
menagerie said:
It won't affect legitimate breeders.


This has been put into effect to stop the illegal trafficking of animals on the street and at swap meets. For example, there is a HUGE problem in the garment district in LA where people are selling unweaned baby bunnies on the street, which of course die in the hands of the new owners.

They have also built in exceptions, which I would argue chin shows would fall under.
Click to expand...

Regarding the bunnies at the garment district in LA it seems was making the news a lot.
 
I know due to having a small child and having had a scary experiance in my home reciently I have been meeting people in a public place
 
I would think meeting someone for an exchange of ownership and money is different than standing there with a box of puppies.
 
I hope it's nothing to worry about, but it could have been worded a little more appropriately with small animal breeders in mind. I won't be meeting anyone in parking lots or public places starting in January.

Like I said in my initial post, I am not against what they are trying to stop. I've seen the animal selling booths at swap meets. I don't believe they are going about it the right way and they knew the bill would meet opposition which is why they slid it in over night.
 
I don't think this will be that big of an issue. If the animal is already paid for then you aren't selling it they are picking it up. Picking up an animal from someone isn't illegal. If you wanted to be extra careful you would just want to make sure they paypal'd you in advance so there was no money changing hands at the pick up point. I agree that the issue here would be enforcement - they are only going to be watching these swap meets and for idiots selling puppies out of trunks. I used to see that all the time when we lived in NC made me mad as a lot of these puppies had parvo. Don't see it in TN much as I think it's probably illegal here. I have met people several times and never once have I been questioned. Even when I hand over a gallon baggie of chin food which from a distance probably looks like drugs LOL.
 
If the animal is already paid for then you aren't selling it they are picking it up
Click to expand...
.

This is what I was thinking as well. If the animal is already sold, it's the new owner's animal, you're just dropping it off to them, no different than if you were pet sitting, etc.

Here the puppy mill and BYB's sit on the roadside all day, especially on weekend's marketing their mutt puppies with no shots in all kinds of heat and rain...
 
Riven said:
.

This is what I was thinking as well. If the animal is already sold, it's the new owner's animal, you're just dropping it off to them, no different than if you were pet sitting, etc.

Here the puppy mill and BYB's sit on the roadside all day, especially on weekend's marketing their mutt puppies with no shots in all kinds of heat and rain...
Click to expand...

Yep. Exactly. Having one or two chins in a car and being there for 5 minutes is different than having 10 in a crate hanging out for hours soliciting people in a parking lot.
 
ChinnyMom said:
or a gallon baggie of blue cloud from not so far away......... :rofl:
Click to expand...

Dad got a phone call from a post office in Colorado asking what the white powder coming out of one of my boxes was. The wanted to know if it was dangerous and had to evacuate and close the post office. Dad explained that it was dust for chinchillas to roll in. They were fine with that and told him that I needed to pack my boxes better. He told them they must have been really rough on the package because I had never had a problem before. A while later they called back and asked him what the wood was that was sticking out of the package. LOL - I don't know whose package this was but I would have liked to have seen pictures!

Ronda
 
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