Breeding collars....

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Sorry about your female pookin.

I don't know if you can fully know how a chin will react to another chin - some yes, you do know they are aggressive and can make modifications to the herd, but I've had sweet ones to their mates, babies, and me poke their head out the door and not care about the female in the run on the right, but try to take the left one's head off. It's just a concern overall when you breed run style - animals are unpredictable.

I double collared anyone who was able to get their collar off once. I've done checks and found collars just on, but no rivets. I've had to hang toys to block and make jump hole covers smaller for one who could get collars off and jump holes open. She wasn't aggressive, just REALLY wanted her mate to cuddle with. Just from paranoia I wouldn't leave jump holes open if I went on vacation or knew someone was pregnant just for safety. I was lucky the worst I had from any run incidents was blood from a nipped toe painted on the run walls. That's the worst feeling seeing blood!

I didn't use the newer collars - all mine had the metal rivets...as hard as those dang things are to get on it's crazy they can get them off. Little buggers.
 
Tiffany - any brass fasteners that I have seen would be too wide to fit through the hole of the collar. Did you buy a certain kind? Do you have photos?
 
I'm not sure which size I purchased, either 1/2" or 3/4" shank, but I've also used the 1" with no problem. I haven't had any issues with them being too wide to fit, mostly just too long, but I normally just cut them back with a pair of scissors. I can get photos if you like..
 
threewingedfury said:
I'm not sure which size I purchased, either 1/2" or 3/4" shank, but I've also used the 1" with no problem. I haven't had any issues with them being too wide to fit, mostly just too long, but I normally just cut them back with a pair of scissors. I can get photos if you like..
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I have never actually tried it. Just seems visually like they would be too wide. Will try it when I get home.
 
I have showed people at the Shindig and MCBA Nations before about spreading rivets and the use of the brass fasteners which I started many years ago. For anyone who is at the Michigan show this weekend I will show people how I use both there. The brass fasteners work but you need to watch them so they do not get straightened out from being chewed on and irritate the animals neck. They will not get them off though.
 
Sorry to hear about your girl. Unfortunately, these things happen. In one of my standard runs, I have a super sweet girl. She loves getting scritches, being pet and cuddling with her mate and she is a GREAT mom. She had her collar off to rest after nursing a litter of triplets. Shortly after weaning the babies, she got her jump hole cover off, went into the next cage, killed that female and went back into her cage. The female she killed is out of my favorite line of standards and was easily one of my favorite girls. It would be nice if we could predict everything.

Spreading the rivets or brass fasteners works well. I actually use colored fasteners so that I can see them better and ensure they are all still in place at a glance. When I first started, my mentors showed me how to spread the rivets with a screw driver. It's really simple and effecive.
 
Tabitha, that is a GREAT idea about the colored fastners. I didn't know that you could use something other than rivets either!!!! I have no clue what a "fastner" is or where to get them but I am looking forward to Jags doing a little demo for us at the show! I am so glad that at least this thread is bringing up all of this different things. I know that breeding has it's ups and downs and I'll recover (even though this was a hard one...) but at least if we can learn from this and spread the word about things like this even a little and learn from it then it's a bit easier to take.
 
I have some of those fasteners, they looked too big at the store but I bought them anyway. They do actually fit just have to trim them down a bit.

I don't remember who asked for a picture but here are the open runs I am using now. I should've said "all wire" as open isn't a very good description. The ones I had before were solid sides/back/tops/bottoms and I had several severe beatings and a death in them. I know Ronda had deaths in these too, so I'm sure I just got lucky, but the females next door to each other do seem to appreciate the company of a neighbor.

The cages without shelves are females without collars who are too fat to get into the hole. I was kind of torn on that, I'd like them all to have shelves but not wearing a collar won over due to collar related risks.

*Edit - so weird. I attached a picture to this post, I can see it in manage attachments but it is not showing up. Oh well.
 

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Poor Mabel, sorry for your loss Pookinaround. I hope you don't end up loosing two females (Pandora to culling), but I'm glad those other girls were un-harassed.

Rivets always make me think of jewelry making, I don't have breeding chins with collars but I do make jewelry and you always 'close the rivets by mooshing the ends flat. I bet there are a ton of youtubes and other instructions on jewelry rivets. I can't picture how you would do it on a chin, but Jags mention of a screwdriver makes me think its probably at least similar...

I was surprised to see that people don't cap off their rivets on chins, its basically like leaving the rivet "unlocked".

Here is one I found, she shows the riveting at 4:00:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1xuRcE0Shg

I think it would be wonderful if Jags would make a recording of how to close the rivet on a collar (maybe a collar not on an animal so no randoms make weird comments, ughs).

Jessica
 
I was surprised to see that people don't cap off their rivets on chins, its basically like leaving the rivet "unlocked".
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Because you will have to adjust the collar on some females many times and collars/rivets are reused for decades. I have some nice snapping ones here that are over 60 years old. 99% of chins never have a problem, I find it's just a few that have learned that they can get into a run, say you left the hole open and they got up as a baby... or a male chews them off.

You can't really "mash" them, you spread them with a screwdriver. I will try to take a video tonight.

Attached the pic from the last post below.
 

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Randy, if it is ok with you do you mind if I bring said murderer to use as the demo animal? I may just put her in the show and see what ya'all think in determining her fate...I'll bring 2 of those Ryerson collars too. I'd feel a lot better knowing she was "locked down" tighter than Ft. Knox...
 
Spoof said:
Because you will have to adjust the collar on some females many times and collars/rivets are reused for decades. I have some nice snapping ones here that are over 60 years old. 99% of chins never have a problem, I find it's just a few that have learned that they can get into a run, say you left the hole open and they got up as a baby... or a male chews them off.

You can't really "mash" them, you spread them with a screwdriver. I will try to take a video tonight.

Attached the pic from the last post below.
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Ohhh ok Spoof thank you for the clarification, it does sound like they will be a little different from the ones used in jewelry then. =) That an your bracelets typically don't grow bigger/smaller on ya. ;)
 
Just wanted to share what I thought might be a good idea regarding collars and brass fasteners... I ended up using 2 regular extra large collars and I put the brass fasteners with the ends both facing in towards each other so that they are both between the two collars and only the flat ends are both facing outward. This way they don't poke the chin or cause irritation. I was able to find the 1/2" fasteners at Wal-Mart. I checked Staples but they only had the 1". I looked but couldn't find the colored ones.
 
I use the 1" and roll the ends up with a very small pair of needle nose pliers. I then flatten the rolled up ends so they are less likely to unwind. I am not sure 1/2 " just folded over will stay in place.
 
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