A6, A7, & A8 (Color/Dad help please!)

[ErinsChins]

I woke up this morning to three beautiful babies! 2 males & 1 female. The mother (who I will not be breeding again due to trying to improve my herd) is a medium tan (I think, she's on my website, desdemona). There are two tan babies (is one a tan white?) and an extra dark ebony (black as..black can be!). Please keep in mind that when I bred her I wasn't going about it the right way and was only breeding for color. I also thought she was sterile, sooo. Well, I feel like an idiot. I'm not sure who the dad is. She was recently (3-4 months ago) with a pink white v/c e/c male who is proven and before that (4-5 months ago) with a dark tan male who is also proven. I am stumped as to where this ebony baby came from. Any help? There are some pics below. Also, here are their weights!

Light Tan Male: 50
Dark Tan Female: 48
Extra Dark Ebony Male: 45

Cross your fingers for a successful first litter/triplets! I've got another girl ready to burst too. After the next girl has hers, I think that will be the end of my bad practice of breeding! (Unless someone surprises me!)

 

[Mikayla]

As I said before- I LOVE LOVE LOVE the little Ebony boy

 

[ErinsChins]

As I said before- I LOVE LOVE LOVE the little Ebony boy

Haha I know he's so adorable He's my first Ebony that dark. I was NOT expecting it. I really don't care for tans (except for Laila <3) and my thought was, "Uhg more tans " LOL but I guess I got lucky!

ETA: Right now i'd kind of actually look forward to some standard males It's been a while!

 

[Sdo9396]

Your light tan male looks like the same color as the twin girls that my beige Ruby had! I'm also curious as to what color he is so that I can decide what color my kits here are. )

 

[ErinsChins]

Your light tan male looks like the same color as the twin girls that my beige Ruby had! I'm also curious as to what color he is so that I can decide what color my kits here are. )

See, I had a chinchilla that was identical to him when she was born a few years ago but now she's a VERY white pink white (I attached a baby pic) Tans confuse me!

 

[Ash]

The father could be either male, unless the light tan lightens into having white, then the father would be from the first male. Good luck with your trips.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Unless you know the exact dates of seperation no way to know - there's tan and ebony all over the place in them. The light one does not look like a tan white - just a light tan to me. That does not eliminate the pw though.

 

[addictedtochins]

Very sweet, congratulations!
How is little miracle chinny? Time for a update.

 

[mark miller]

Based on the approximate time frame listed, the father has to be the pink white vc ec. It can not be the tan male if the mother was seperated 4-5 months ago. It appears you have a homo beige ec, a tan, and a ex dark ebony. Without seeing the belly fur, and if the homo beige or apparent tan baby have any white under their chin and belly. If they do, then the tan is actually a hetero beige ec. Either way congrats, 3 babies all different colors is always fun. Good luck with them.

 

[Brittany]

cute kits Erin! Our pythagoras has a lot of different mutations in him too. When he was a kit we thought he was a tan white, as he grew he darkened and turned tan, and later his belly whitened up and he decided to be a beige. I call him my chin of a different color lol. Let us know how the babies grow and what they turn into.

Here's gus as a baby, definitely doesn't look beige at this age.

 

[Vyxxin]

I agree 100% with Ash...it could be either. There is no way of telling unless you have an exact date of separation and even THEN, if you put one male in within days of the other male it could still be either.

Furthermore, the information give by Mark Miller is inaccurate. Based on the time frames it could be either because while gestation averages 111days it could run much later, up to and including the 4mos range.

SO, unless that light tan (and no, it is NOT necessarily homo for beige) gains some white (other than on his belly) by an adult it could be either. There is a light tan, a darker tan, and a dark ebony. All possible from any of the combinations above.

 

[mark miller]

Keep in mind we all give opinions on the information and pictures given. Some of this information will be spot on accurate, but most is not. It is common for chinchillas to litter within 3 days of 111 day gestation period from conception. It would not be probable to think this female went 2 weeks past the 111 days and littered out of the tan male. Also, when you mate 2 dark tans (beige+ebony) together and get a really dark tan and a really light tan odds are the light one will carry the homozygous beige gene which I believe it got from the pink white ec male anyway based on the info given. Am I 100% right, maybe not, but to say it's innaccurate is just another opinion which may be right or wrong.

 

[Kansas City Chinchillas]

Well said Mark. I agree with your opinions.

 

[Vyxxin]

Actually, these are not opinions...they are fact. Fact is a chinchilla's gestation can and does run past 111days at times. I had one than ran 123 days once. This was based on the date of separation...going by the last possible day the male bred the female because she was then removed from breeding altogether. So while not probable it IS possible...and in your first post Mark (not trying to create a debate or anything) you mentioned that it "HAS" to be a given male based on vague time frames...it does not...so that is less than accurate.

Finally, based on two beige genes coming together...the odds are genetically in favor of heterozygous offspring regardless of how far apart the color phases are. I do tend to agree with your analysis that it's likely the one is homozygous but also that it isn't a definite

We're trying to help in a thread that there's not a whole lot of help for...if you want to know which is statistically more likely to be the father it is the pw e/c...but if you want to know which it could be...it could be either. To say it HAS to be one or the other is inaccurate...as far as the kits, this is why I don't breed the funny bunnies. I like knowing what I've got without growing it out or waiting for it to breed and having something pop up. That IS speculation.

 

[mark miller]

These are not facts, you might completely believe your female carried for 123 days before littering, but you don't know exactly when that baby was conceived. You did not find a breeding plug. You could have written the date down wrong. The female could have come in contact with a male through her cage after the date you took her from breeding. It is your opinion that the female went 123 days, but if you want to consider all possibilities you could be mistaken on the EXACT gestation period. You admitted you don't know exactly when your female was bred by a male, so it is not a absolute fact that she had a 123 day gestation. You are right that me using the term "has to be" for the father is incorrect. There are many things in the realm of possibilities here. That light tan could also be a pink white eb carrier expressing more of the beige color, which would definitely resolve the father debate. I gave my opinion on these kits based on the info provided, the pics, the most probable liklihoods based on my knowledge and experience of over 30 years of breeding chinchillas. I still believe my original opinion on these kits is most likely correct but there is no factual evidence to back it up, but the pics, and even they are open to opinion. Truth is you may never know exactly what genes are in all of these kits even after they're mated and reproduce. It's just our best educated guess and opinion. I would be curious to know what exactly is the longest proven and documented gestation period for a chinchilla that has had a live birth? Anyway Erin, just enjoy the kits and if you sell them let the buyer know that you're not exactly sure of all the genes in them.

 

[ErinsChins]

Thank you everyone. If I do sell them, I will be sure to say that the dad is unknown. I will probably keep the light one to grow out because if you look at him, his head is white. Solid white. I don't know LOL. I attached a picture, it was taken with my phone with no flash(it's really blurry, forgive me, i'll try to take one in natural light tomorrow).

 

[Vyxxin]

Actually, the "fact" that I was pointing out was not to do with my specific case...it was the "range" used for chinchilla gestation. Just with any animal, with few exceptions, there is a gesation range...this includes humans. The ranges given, using a quick search are in the 107-122 day range. That's a fact...statistics are facts of a sort and in reference to my specific case...while I do not know when she was bred as I did not note a plug, or likewise a witnessed mating, I DID mark her separation date...as she was to be held for 111days and then sold as I was removing her from my herd. Likewise, there was no room for error of through the bars mating as she was in a solid divide cage at the time and there were no escapees during that time. The only room for error in this circumstance, because I will admit, I could have written the date wrong...though to the best of my knowledge I did not...small numbers help me keep great track of my herd

I wasn't in the least discounting what Mark was saying...so everyone, especially the OP, knows. Actually I tend to agree with his analysis...however, I did not want the poster to have any misconceived notions that anything about this was an absolute...because there aren't any able to be given with the information provided!

 

[Riven]

I am going to agree with Mark on two counts, the father is the pw, and the kit is a homo beige. Due to the time frame it's simply more likely. It's rare that a mother will carry over triplets an extra two weeks compared to a single.

I agree on the homo beige because I see no white on that kit's tail. Although it is possible, like a true silver, for a white to be born with no white on the tail, it's extremely uncommon. Also it appears to have the jelly red eyes commonly seen with a homo beige animal. Beige vs tan I won't comment because I can't see a belly, I would call it a tan either way because it carries the eb gene, simply to avoid confusion.

Erin said that she didn't know where the eb came from though, if this is what you meant when you said that please, please do more genetic research before continuing to breed. You could've gotten that solid black baby no matter what that female was bred to, even a standard because the mother carries the ebony gene as it's what creates the tan.

Good record keeping is imperative in situations like this.

 

[ErinsChins]

Riven, I understand that the mother carries the ebony gene, I just didn't think the baby would've been that dark.

 

[Riven]

Ebony gene is unpredictable. This is why it's important to mark ebony carriers because it can pop up full force a couple generations later and become a major set-back.