CA ECBC Spring Field Day - March 28, 2009

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Now, for the standard carriers! Unfortunately none of the carriers were old enough to get Class Champion or Reserve Class Champion so they didn't get to compete for Grand Show Champion standard. Here are the carriers and what they took.

First Place:
Somavia Chinchillas (cage #503)
Chinchillas QED (cage #15)
Chinchillas QED (cage #16)

Second Place:
Chinchillas QED (cage #14)
Chin Colores (cage #35)

Third Place:
Chin Colores (cage #34)

No Award:

Cage #533
 
Have fun typing out all those results, Tabitha! lol

I will post pictures later. I haven't uploaded them onto the computer just yet... they'll be up by this evening though!

I wanted to comment on our twist to the show with the standard v/c and s/c being judged separately... I know some may have been pushing for them to be judged separately, but IMO, I think they should be judged along with the standards. I think by judging them separately, there is a greater likelihood that they will be held to lower standards (although Donna did a great job judging and not doing so). As long as they are marked v/c or s/c on the cards, then the judge knows that they are carriers but I think they should be judged along with the others and held to the same standards.
 
Wow, I sure hope this isn't something they are thinking about implementing for all shows, I don't see how it does our recessives any good to segregate carriers from non-carriers, and then I think about all the unscrupulous people who will lie to have animals show better.
 
White Class

First Place:
NONE

Second Place:
Somavia Chinchillas (cage #501)
RDZC Chinchillas (cage #521)
Chinchilla Villa (cage #550)

Third Place:
Chinchilla Villa (cage #549)
Chinchilla Villa (cage #551)

Fifth Place:
Chinchilla Villa (cage #552)
Chiniverse (cage #558)

No Award:
Cage #534

Color Class Champion for White:

NONE

Reserve Color Class Champion for White:

NONE

Sapphire Class

First Place:
None

Second Place:
Chinchillas QED (cage #528)
Chinchillas QED (cage #529)

Third Place:
Somavia Chinchillas (cage #502)
Chinchillas QED (cage #527)

Color Class Champion for Sapphire:

NONE

Reserve Color Class Champion for Sapphire:

NONE

Violet Class

First Place:
Somavia Chinchillas (cage #504)
Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #511)
Chiniverse (cage #536)
Chin Colores (cage #544)

Second Place:
RDZC Chinchillas (cage #523)
Chiniverse (cage #537)

Third Place:
RDZC Chinchillas (cage #522)
RDZC Chinchillas (cage #524)

Color Class Champion for Violet

Chiniverse (cage #536)

Reserve Color Class Champion for Violet

Somavia Chinchillas (cage #504)
 
shuboyje said:
Wow, I sure hope this isn't something they are thinking about implementing for all shows, I don't see how it does our recessives any good to segregate carriers from non-carriers, and then I think about all the unscrupulous people who will lie to have animals show better.
Click to expand...

The reason we did it separately this show is that you look for different qualities in your carriers than you do in regular standards. You don't want to use an extra dark standard that would take class champion in your violet or sapphire lines. You want a lighter, clearer, bluer animal to use for your carriers. They get their own Class Champion but for Grand Show, they still get compared to the regular standards.

I don't think there should have been ANY "ebony" carriers. Ebony has enough genes making the one mutation to be considered as recessive and dominant. Even though it can be carried from generation to generation you don't HAVE to go back to a carrier to get nice ebony chinchillas. To me it should be a standard or ebony and that's that.
 
Beige Class

Homo Beige

First Place:
Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #512)

Second Place:
RDZC Chinchillas (cage #525)

Third Place:
Chin Colores (cage #545)

Hetero Beige

First Place:
Somavia Chinchillas (cage #506)
Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #513)
Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #514)
Chiniverse (cage #539)
Chin Colores (cage #546)
Chinchilla Chateau (cage #567)
Chinchilla Chateau (cage #568)

Second Place:
Somavia Chinchillas (cage #508)
Chinchilla Chateau (cage #565)
Chinchilla Chateau (cage #566)

Third Place:
Chinchilla Villa (cage #555)
Chinchilla Chateau (cage #564)

Fourth Place:
Chinchilla Villa (cage #553)

Fifth Place:
4 Ever Chinchillas (cage #531)

No Award:
Cage #554

TOV Beige

First Place:
None

Second Place:
Somavia Chinchillas (cage #510)

Third Place:
Somavia Chinchillas (cage #509)
Chinchilla Villa (cage #556)

Beige Wrap

First Place:
None

Second Place:
None

Third Place:
Chinchilla Villa (cage #557)

Color Class Champion for Beige

Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #513)

Reserve Color Class Champion

Chinchilla Chateau (cage #567?)

I may have CCC and RCCC wrong
 
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IMHO this is only gonna lower the quality of carriers if it spreads to other shows. Why not go to the MCBA system then and break standards into color phases and judge them that way. Making a medium standard a CC without having it show against all the medium standards makes no sense. To me I see this as basically admitting that there is a flaw in the ECBC show system due to the judges leaning toward darker animals. MCBA shows have the same problem, but atleast in their show system a medium animal can do very well before the dark bias works against it.

RDZCRanch said:
The reason we did it separately this show is that you look for different qualities in your carriers than you do in regular standards. You don't want to use an extra dark standard that would take class champion in your violet or sapphire lines. You want a lighter, clearer, bluer animal to use for your carriers. They get their own Class Champion but for Grand Show, they still get compared to the regular standards.

I don't think there should have been ANY "ebony" carriers. Ebony has enough genes making the one mutation to be considered as recessive and dominant. Even though it can be carried from generation to generation you don't HAVE to go back to a carrier to get nice ebony chinchillas. To me it should be a standard or ebony and that's that.
Click to expand...
 
Jeff, This is a claiming show field day were the hosting branch(s) can make their own rules.
I don't agree with judging recessive carriers either. But I disagree with the statement that you can't don't want to use CC type chins in your mutes. If you aren't using top quality animals in your mutes you will never improve them. I have and will continue to use Dark and extra dark standard to improve all my mutes. and that includes the various recessives as well as Blacks, whites ,beige,eb. to imply that dark and extra dark mutes can't or won't do well in shows doesn't fly with me either . since many gsc beiges at state shows and at least a NAt'l GSC beige , was of the dark /xdark phase.
 
Dark Ebony

First Place:
Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #515)
Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #516)

Second Place:
Chinchilla Villa (cage #561)
Chinchilla Villa (cage #562)

Third Place:
Chinchilla Villa (cage #563)

Medium Ebony

First Place:
Chinchilla Villa (cage #558)

Second Place:
Chin Colores (cage #547)
Chin Colores (cage #548)

Third Place:
Chinchilla Villa (cage #560)

Fourth Place:
Chinchilla Villa (cage #559)

Fifth Place:
4 Ever Chinchillas (cage #532)

Color Class Champion for Ebony

Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #516)

Reserve Color Class Champion for Ebony

Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #515)

Black Velvet

First Place:
Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #517)
Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #518)
Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #520)
Nan Ebiner (cage #540)
Nan Ebiner (cage #541)
Nan Ebiner (cage #542)
Chin Colores (cage #570)

Second Place:
Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #519)
Chiniverse (cage #535)
Chin Colores (cage #569)

Third Place:
RDZC Chinchillas (cage #526)
Chinchillas QED (cage #530)
Nan Ebiner (cage #543)

Color Class Champion for Black Velvet

Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #518)

Reserve Color Class Champion for Black Velvet

Bowen's Chinchillas (cage #517)

GRAND SHOW CHAMPION MUTATIONS

Bowen's Chinchillas BEIGE (cage #514)

RESERVE GRAND SHOW CHAMPION MUTATIONS

Bowen's Chinchillas BLACK VELVET (cage #518)
 
Yup, I understand it is just a field day, but it worries me because there were a few powerful people in the chin community involved. Would HATE to see it work it's way into other shows.

RMC said:
Jeff, This is a claiming show field day were the hosting branch(s) can make their own rules.
I don't agree with judging recessive carriers either. But I disagree with the statement that you can't don't want to use CC type chins in your mutes. If you aren't using top quality animals in your mutes you will never improve them. I have and will continue to use Dark and extra dark standard to improve all my mutes. and that includes the various recessives as well as Blacks, whites ,beige,eb. to imply that dark and extra dark mutes can't or won't do well in shows doesn't fly with me either . since many gsc beiges at state shows and at least a NAt'l GSC beige , was of the dark /xdark phase.
Click to expand...
 
RMC said:
Jeff, This is a claiming show field day were the hosting branch(s) can make their own rules.
I don't agree with judging recessive carriers either. But I disagree with the statement that you can't don't want to use CC type chins in your mutes. If you aren't using top quality animals in your mutes you will never improve them. I have and will continue to use Dark and extra dark standard to improve all my mutes. and that includes the various recessives as well as Blacks, whites ,beige,eb. to imply that dark and extra dark mutes can't or won't do well in shows doesn't fly with me either . since many gsc beiges at state shows and at least a NAt'l GSC beige , was of the dark /xdark phase.
Click to expand...

We have an dark/extra dark phase beige at this show and while he was clear and blue and very nice to look at...he didn't stand a chance against the lighter BLUER beiges.

It's a given to use dark standards with black velvets and ebs...

I don't think anyone should use a light light light standard that has almost no veiling. We use medium phase standards because you can see how blue and clear they are right off the bat. When we work with mutations that have trouble with clarity and being blue enough we WANT something that is blue enough to knock your socks off.

Do it your way, Luke and we'll do it ours.:thumbsup:
 
As I already stated, if that is the goal why not go to a phase based system like the MCBA uses then? If you are gonna make a medium standard a CC due to it's superior ability to be used with certain mutes it should be the best medium standard, NOT the best one which may or may not carry a recessive trait.

RDZCRanch said:
We have an dark/extra dark phase beige at this show and while he was clear and blue and very nice to look at...he didn't stand a chance against the lighter BLUER beiges.

It's a given to use dark standards with black velvets and ebs...

I don't think anyone should use a light light light standard that has almost no veiling. We use medium phase standards because you can see how blue and clear they are right off the bat. When we work with mutations that have trouble with clarity and being blue enough we WANT something that is blue enough to knock your socks off.

Do it your way, Luke and we'll do it ours.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
 
The problem is...when you have a carrier it's not so simple as "medium phase." We judged based on what you would want to go back to a sapphire line vs. a violet line. Because with violet you want more veiling in the lines than you want in the sapphires. If you work with either of these colors and the carriers they produce you'd understand why we made a separate "carrier" class rather than putting in a medium standard class. We have plenty of medium standards that compete against the dark standards and do well.
 
I've made my point here, and still support it, so at this point I won't post more on that topic, but I do want to comment on your tone. You need to realize you aren't talking with idiots. I would imagine both Luke and I have been breeding and showing chins for a longer time then you have, and both of us have had a good deal of success on the show table. You don't need to tell us how quality chins are bred, but it seems to be what you keep on doing. It might be time to step of that horse, it looks pretty high from down here.
 
I have produced a number of section and reserve section champ. Violets in the U.S as well as a violet section class champ in a NCBC show in Canada. As well as a Saphire section champ in the U.S.
But I have yet to see a violet that has had a break in the veiling. Therefore i don't give veiling much consideration in the violet carriers I use, As I understand that the colorphase of a violet carrier is going to br lighter then the exact same animal would be without the violet gene. I am much more picky with the veiling that i use to produce sapphires.
But as you implied there are many ways to produce quality animals to claim different isn't accurate.
shows are based on phenotypes, breeding should be based on genotype, some times they are the same, many times they are not.
 
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How come there are classes for the different beiges. I thought it was light, medium, dark color phase beiges. Is there normally a homo beige class and a tov beige class?

Congrats on all the winners. Great Job.

This thread is useless without photos. We want photos!! LOL
 
Okay, here are the photos from the show. I missed the white class and didn't get good pics of the GSC and RGS standards so if anyone got those, feel free to post 'em!

DSC04711.jpg

The animals in the show

DSC04713.jpg

Beginning the show with the std females

DSC04715.jpg

Sarah with Donna, judging the standards

DSC04727.jpg

Standards

DSC04732.jpg

Audience
 
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