Front teeth removal???

Does anyone on here have a chin that had to have this done??
My Lily has a long history with teeth issues and Doc just dropped this bomb on me Today...
Thoughts?? Advice?? Experience??

Wow, that is pretty drastic, what is the issue? I have heard of molars but never front teeth being removed. I imagine the chin would learn to chew with its back teeth...I'm sorry.

I had a rescue chin, Oscar, who lost his incisors and he did fine - he learned very quickly to push food into the back of his mouth & managed most things with little difficulty.
The biggest problem for him was the initial "bite" and because he could not chew off pieces with his incisors any more I used to break things up for him - like mini shredded wheat.
He ate pellets, hay, readigrass, dried dandelion, dried plantain & all manner of high fibre roughage. He even enjoyed chewing small apple and hawthorn twigs - basically anything which did not require the use of incisors.
I guess the advantage Oscar had was his molars were good and aligned nicely.

One person I know, Tanya (who used to breed) had an old chin who had no front teeth. He was able to survive just fine with out them.

Her Xrays show a light gray area around the roots that he said were "air pockets" from the teeth "wiggling"... This is a very experience Vet and I trust his actions & insight.
What I am worried about is her molars aren't the best either & have to be trimmed & filed every 6-8 weeks.

I guess my question is what would the quality of life be. Unless both sets were pulled the other set would have to be continually filed... I just can't see the benefit of having to have teeth filed every couple weeks, they'd need sedated and the whole thing has just got to be hard on them.

I have to agree with Nicole. Maybe if it was one thing or the other, but to have both things going on seems like you're talking about a quantity of life issue, rather than quality. Teeth pulled is traumatic enough, but to have to continue having the teeth trimmed on a schedule? That's something I could not do to a chin of mine.

I'm sorry that there is so much going on here tooth wise. It's like a double whammy.

IF she has this done, it would be top & bottom...

I am in tears as I read your replies & write this...

Lily has been having her teeth filed and trimmed ever since I got her from rescue in March of 08, every 6-8 weeks, sometimes longer...

As much as I understand where yall are coming from with her quality of life, this is VERY soon in the game and I do not know what I am dealing with as far as hand feeding & meds just yet...
If it was to come to a point were it was a "useless" effort I would not continue the fight...

It is still early & I still have hope...

I have yet to post Lily's whole story on here because of the insensitivity I knew I would receive.. But am now thinking if I would have posted the whole thing you guys would have a little more of an understanding of what is going on, so that is my fault, I was shocked by the news this afternoon & wanted the quickest replies so I relied on this forum for fast & helpful info...
Thank you for everything I will continue to listen & appreciate ALL info!!

Here is a silly pic of my Lily Pearl...


And here is a video of a few of my ladies but there is about 20 seconds devoted to me kissing my sweet Lily Pearl...
http://www.youtube.com/user/theonlyflick

I will keep yall posted on her condition and on what we decide is best for her...

Aimee & The Chinette's said:

Her Xrays show a light gray area around the roots that he said were "air pockets" from the teeth "wiggling"... This is a very experience Vet and I trust his actions & insight.
What I am worried about is her molars aren't the best either & have to be trimmed & filed every 6-8 weeks.

Click to expand...

Aimee & The Chinette's said:

IF she has this done, it would be top & bottom...

I am in tears as I read your replies & write this...

Lily has been having her teeth filed and trimmed ever since I got her from rescue in March of 08, every 6-8 weeks, sometimes longer...

As much as I understand where yall are coming from with her quality of life, this is VERY soon in the game and I do not know what I am dealing with as far as hand feeding & meds just yet...
If it was to come to a point were it was a "useless" effort I would not continue the fight...

It is still early & I still have hope...

I have yet to post Lily's whole story on here because of the insensitivity I knew I would receive.. But am now thinking if I would have posted the whole thing you guys would have a little more of an understanding of what is going on, so that is my fault, I was shocked by the news this afternoon & wanted the quickest replies so I relied on this forum for fast & helpful info...
Thank you for everything I will continue to listen & appreciate ALL info!!



I will keep yall posted on her condition and on what we decide is best for her...

Click to expand...

I'm sorry that your chin is struggling & you are finding it hard - many of us have been in similar positions & it never gets any easier.

I'd like to comment on a few things if I may ............
Please take this in the spirit in which it is intended - as a help and not as a criticism.

Firstly I have to ask, why do you think you would receive "insensitivity" if you posted Lily's story? Because you will get answers/advice you don't want to hear? I don't think anyone who has been through difficulties with a chin who has dental disease & who gives advice/support on this forum is insensitive - they just tell it like it is.
I would suspect that many of us have been in similar positions with chins in the past - we'd love to have it sugar coated or want the treatment what will keep them with us ............ but, sadly with chins, that is not realistic - chins with dental problems need us to be their advocates: to do for them what they cannot ask for or do for themselves.


You say that it is "VERY soon in the game" but, in all honesty, a chin which has had repeated dental burring every 6-8 weeks for 22 months is (I would suggest) in advanced stages of dental disease & has been for some considerable time.

If the Xrays show molar problems plus incisor "pockets" then you really do need to consider her quality of life and whether there is any point in attempting "heroics" - IMO removing the incisors is pointless if the molars are affected.

Let me ask you a couple of questions: (you don't have to answer them here but it might help you to think through them)
Why put her through a painful and risky procedure? She is at risk because she is going under anaesthetic & she is at risk from food debris getting trapped in the holes left behind after the teeth are removed - this often festers, causes infection in the bone, & is painful, debilitating & can cause septicaemia ..............
What does she gain from losing her incisors? Difficulty in eating (she will have to adapt), more pressure on her molars, a sore mouth from the surgery ..........


I wish you all the very best in making your decision.

Aimee - There was no criticism intended in my post, just a reality check. I know how hard it is to let a beloved pet go. I've been there too many times to count, with horses, dogs, cats, rats, chinchillas. The list seems endless. But, I will always remember what my sister said to me, when I was throwing money away by the wheelbarrow full trying to save my horse, who should have been put to sleep imemediately "When you are keeping them alive for you, and not for them, it's time to let them go."

Don't think because I'm a breeder that I don't understand the devestation that comes with loss. You have favorites, and every time one of them dies, a little piece of you dies with them. My chins are always pets first, then breeders. I do understand and I speak from experience. I just lost Tanna 2 months ago after hand feeding her for close to a year because her two top incisors fell out. The vet has no idea why, other than that it may have been a left over from a bad food switch. We trimmed the bottom teeth to keep up with the top, so she wouldn't hurt herself, but the top teeth never grew back in. After one of the trims, her bottom jaw became infected. Now not only was I causing her pain by trimming her teeth, but I had to keep ripping this wound open day after day, trying to get it to drain. She must have hated me at the end, because I know I hated myself for doing that to her. I finally got my head out of my butt and said enough. She's tired of having this done to her, and I'm tired of doing it. It was the right decision, even though I cried for days.

Just because I don't post about everything that goes on in my herd doesn't mean I don't understand. I just choose to keep things like that to myself. So yes, I do understand EXACTLY what you are going through, and I shared my perspective because of that.

I think you're confusing hope with wishful thinking. There is no cure for malo. You've been fighting the good fight. But you really have to consider this from an animal's point of view. If this were your child, and they had to have a painful procedure every 6-8 weeks of his/her life, what do you think they would say? I know what mine would say. Mom, I can't do this anymore. Enough.

This just chokes me up. I can tell how much you love Lily, Aimee and that is an adorable picture. I'm so sorry you are having to go through this.

I agree with Claire and Peggy.

Many people think " us breeders" are insenstive, that chins are just another "one" out there. But they are not. In fact what many people face in issues and heart break is amplified in us, because of the sheer matter of volume we face it more often. To prove my point, I got five older breeders from someone at the Boone show, that was the 23rd, one was not eating well, I figured it was stress, then she got wobblely, I brought her in, she was all bones under her super thick fur, I force feed her, I massaged her tummy, I got meds into her, gave her fluids, I was so happy when I finally got her to eat half a cheerio, that was at 12:30... by 7 when I woke up, not even seven hours later she was already gone. She had malo... Rewind to a week before the show, a white female about 4 months old got sick, was having troubles eating. I brought her in, force feed her, flushed her mouth, I assumed she had something stuck in her teeth or gums, she was eating good and drinking like crazy on her own in no time, she lived on a carrier on my desk, but then Friday came and I had to either move her back to the chin house or take her with... she was doing good, so I moved her to the chin house, no sense in traveling with her... by the time I got back... she was laying in her cage, barely breathing. I tried everything, but she didn't make it. I cried... this was the last kit out of one of my favorite females who I'd since lost. A double whammy in two weeks.

I've pulled and pts some of the friendliest, most wonderful animals because of malo. One was out of prime and third best at Nationals... she ran up to the cage door to meet you wanted pets and scritches. I didn't think it was fair to let her keep suffering, until the end, even though she was skinny and weak, she came to the cage door for me, I cried, but as I could feel her roots breaking through her bottom jaw with my bare hand... I knew it was the right thing to do. I cried, she trusted me.

No one is saying you don't love Lily, or you should take the "easy way out", but sometimes it is about quality of life, about not suffering, about asking what is the best for Lily. It's not easy, we understand, we've been there, more times than many others... Like Pegs said... just because we don't post every time, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and just because it happens more with more chins, doesn't mean it isn't less hard. What we're saying is be sure to look through all of the facts, will she ever have a normal life, do you know for sure it will work, do you know for sure she won't be in pain...

Didn't mean to take over your thread, but I did want to try to show that we're not insensitive, I worked in a vet for years, I saw people put down dogs because they just didn't want them anymore, or they were getting old and "might" be having problems soon. I also saw people who spent tons of money keeping their animals alive, although they couldn't walk on their own, couldn't even stand up... who were they spending the money for?

im so sorry aimee, i can only imagine how you feel, but im sorry i agree with tunes and riven's opinion....dont make that poor baby suffer, please... i know your trying to save her but i believe that in the end she will suffer more than be happy...my mom is a vet tech and i have worked at the vet with her...i have witnessed so many people make there animals go through severe pain just so that they didnt loose them...and i never agreed with it..think of how the chinnie feels aimee please..i wish you the best of luck with whatever decision you make...but please just think of her...

I agree with what's been stated. You think we're being insensitive? I just had to put one of my girls down about a month ago due to malo. Do you think I was jumping for joy over my loss? Do you think I want others to go through the same pain?

After I found out it was malo, I put two and two together and could see that she was suffering for a long time prior to that. I just had never dealt with teeth issues before so I didn't think it was anything serious. I only wish I had caught it sooner so that I hadn't let her suffer and slowly stop eating like she had.

I only ever say that sometimes we may need to act out of kindness to the animal rather than for ourselves, because it isn't fair to the animal to continue to have to go through these things. Getting teeth trimmed cannot feel good. I can't imagine it does. And now the front incisors too?

We post because we do care. So don't say we don't. Don't say we're insensitive. Because we're not. No one knows what goes on daily in many of our herds or pet families. People are just trying to save your girl from prolonged pain.

I agree with what has already been said. You have to think about the quality of life for Lilly. Having no incisors and constant molar grindings is painful and I can't imagine there is going to be much quality of life there. No one here is insensitive. Everyone here cares about chins. They are telling you what is best for Lilly.

If any of my boys were in Lilly's situation, I would have them put to sleep. I love all of my boys very much but I could never let them go through the painful disease that is malo. I would never want them to suffer just to keep them around longer.

Well, if you can wade through the swearing and whining, on another forum it is mentioned that the chin had an injury to her front teeth. This was not mentioned here, of course, so we all are being "insensitive jerks" and other people are much more caring of their chinchillas.

Had this injury been mentioned, then someone, gee, maybe even me, might have said - If they are just loose from an injury, maybe you should wait a little bit and see if they will tighten back up again. This frequently happens with dental injuries and sometimes resolves itself.

Unfortunately, instead we are a bunch of nasty, evil people because we don't fawn all over someone who we feel is serving their own best interests instead of the best interests of their chins.

Ah well, I suspect those of us here that put our chins before ourselves can sleep at night regardless of those posts on another forum. What I cannot understand is, why bother to come here then? If all you want is pats on the back and atta girls - you're already getting them. What is your purpose to coming here?

That's nice to know, Pegs.

I posted the 1st post as soon as I got home from the vet & wanted to know if anyone had ever heard of a chin having this done. I appreciate input & the reason I asked was so I could make an educated decision on weather to go through with it or not. I now know that I do not want to do it & would NOT put her through that. Her quality of life is good now, she loves playtime & acts like all of the other chinnies. It does bother me that yall are thinking that I would keep her here for my my own selfish reasons.

I knew from the time the Vet said she had Malo that it was going to be a losing battle but he hasn't said anything about her having to be put down anytime soon.

As far as her "injury":
When I was getting ready to leave for the Vet I put her in her carrier & Rick showed up to pick up extra cages at the same time, when I went to pick her up her teeth were caught in the wire of the carrier and we had to cut the grid to get her free, she cut her gums and bled a little.

She had an x ray on 12-8-09 that the vet was holding up next to the one from yesterday, they both had the gray areas by the roots very small but still there, so I do not believe this situation is from her "injury" I am kicking myself now because I usually take pix of their x rays.

Once again I feel I have to repeat this because some are blindly posting thinking that I am keeping a dyeing chin alive for myself. Some that I know don't even have a Vet.

Yes she has malo, yes she gets trimmed. Do I think she is suffering & should be put down??? Not just yet, she is still very much alive!!

This thread started with me asking if anyone heard of this, NOT that I was having it done & that I "would do anything to keep her alive"

I would NEVER keep an animal here for myself. PERIOD.

I thank you again for your input & kindness.

I honestly don't know where you are getting that anyone here posted or even thought that you were trying to keep the chin alive "for your own selfish reasons." You said you wanted to "make an educated decision on weather to go through with it or not" and what everyone here has tried to do is to get you to think of all aspects of this decision - they're not condemning you. When asking a question on a forum, you're going to get all types of responses...but overall, you're going to get many different opinions and things to think about. We can't make the decision for you, but we can make sure you are presented with all the different things that you should consider when you make your ultimate decision.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Aimee & The Chinette's said:

Does anyone on here have a chin that had to have this done??
My Lily has a long history with teeth issues and Doc just dropped this bomb on me Today...
Thoughts?? Advice?? Experience??

Click to expand...

Aimee & The Chinette's said:

I posted the 1st post as soon as I got home from the vet & wanted to know if anyone had ever heard of a chin having this done. I appreciate input & the reason I asked was so I could make an educated decision on weather to go through with it or not. I now know that I do not want to do it & would NOT put her through that. Her quality of life is good now, she loves playtime & acts like all of the other chinnies. It does bother me that yall are thinking that I would keep her here for my my own selfish reasons.

I knew from the time the Vet said she had Malo that it was going to be a losing battle but he hasn't said anything about her having to be put down anytime soon.
...........................................................

Once again I feel I have to repeat this because some are blindly posting thinking that I am keeping a dyeing chin alive for myself. Some that I know don't even have a Vet.

Yes she has malo, yes she gets trimmed. Do I think she is suffering & should be put down??? Not just yet, she is still very much alive!!

This thread started with me asking if anyone heard of this, NOT that I was having it done & that I "would do anything to keep her alive"

I would NEVER keep an animal here for myself. PERIOD.

I thank you again for your input & kindness.

Click to expand...

Aimee, you asked for "thoughts, advice, experience" - from what I can see you've had just that:
Within the context of your initial post(s) we've given you our thoughts about malocclusion and incisor removal, have shared our experiences of dealing with chins with malocclusion & have even shared personal, painful experiences too.

Part of talking about malocclusion is always going to involve the "quality of life", "when is it time to let go" discussion, simply because that's probably one of the most important, hard to handle, difficult to define issues with owning chins. It's not possible to talk about tooth problems and not talk about quality of life.


No-one who has posted in this thread has done so to make you feel bad - that you are feeling bad is, perhaps, more a reflection on where you're up to in your own mind than anything else.