What's this under his eye?
- Thread starter SCchin
- Start date
Help Support Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum:
aznmexaggie
Chinchilla Chateau
Does it feel hard like tissue, firm but gives slightly or is it soft/squishy? It looks just like an abscess one of my chins had. It was about the size of a gumball and hidden under his fur behind his shoulder. Of course, it wasn't until the vet used a needle to express the contents that we found out it was an abscess. It was firm but gave slightly when squeezed (it encapsulated itself and contained a thick discharge).
SCchin
Well-known member
It came up quickly. Seems like a human cyst, round, movable.
aznmexaggie
Chinchilla Chateau
I'd get it looked at by the vet. It could be a cyst or abscess.
I agree with Sumiko - it looks like an abscess.
I would get a veterinary assessment & also get an xray to check for tooth problems - often tooth root abscesses will show as a lump on the jaw like that.
ETA: Is this the same chin that had his incisors burred? I would suspect that lump is definitely the result of an abscess then.
I would get a veterinary assessment & also get an xray to check for tooth problems - often tooth root abscesses will show as a lump on the jaw like that.
ETA: Is this the same chin that had his incisors burred? I would suspect that lump is definitely the result of an abscess then.
Last edited:
SCchin
Well-known member
Yes, in fact, an hour before I put in the update he was doing much better (he is eating much better). Then we noticed the lump. Is this in his mouth? His xrays didn't show root problems a month ago.
SCchin
Well-known member
Off to the vet this afternoon at 4:30.
This is my daughter's chin (17 y/o), she LOVES Quito. She passed out in the vet's office when they burred his incisors when the vet accidentally caught his lip. So, obviously, she can't be in there when he is treated. She asked me to post and ask what they are going to do to him. Do I need to ask for him to be gassed (third procedure in a month), are there any meds I don't want to use, is there anything else I need to know? If it is drained, does it refill?
And, should I pursue getting the xrays from the vet that is two hours away, or is that futile since the mouth is ever changing?
This is my daughter's chin (17 y/o), she LOVES Quito. She passed out in the vet's office when they burred his incisors when the vet accidentally caught his lip. So, obviously, she can't be in there when he is treated. She asked me to post and ask what they are going to do to him. Do I need to ask for him to be gassed (third procedure in a month), are there any meds I don't want to use, is there anything else I need to know? If it is drained, does it refill?
And, should I pursue getting the xrays from the vet that is two hours away, or is that futile since the mouth is ever changing?
aznmexaggie
Chinchilla Chateau
The vet used a needle to remove the contents of Scooter's lump and it was a thick discharge. He did not have to be gassed for that but he was gassed for the removal of the abscess. The vet mentioned that rabbits and many rodents tend to develop encapsulated abscesses and they normally cannot be drained the way dog/cat abscesses can since the contents are often a thick cheesy discharge. Instead, the entire "capsule" must be removed. Scooter had surgery to remove the abscess and had sutures at the incision site. We ended up using chloramphenicol (which I had a heck of a time getting compounded because it is no longer commonly used in the US... luckily a nearby small pharmacy compounded it with strawberry flavor for me) because the bacteria in these types of abscesses can often cause infection to recur (and many are strains resistant to common antibiotics). We wanted to use the "big guns" to prevent any further infection from developing. TMS and Baytril are also commonly-prescribed chin-safe antibiotics. I also asked for Metacam for pain management as Scooter was sore and irritated by the incision.
About the X-rays, if that vet took digital X-rays, they should be able to e-mail them to you otherwise they'll have to send them via snail-mail.
ETA: The only issue I had with Scooter's recovery was that he kept scratching at the abscess with his back feet. I had to clean and dress the incision site and apply a topical antibiotic (I can't remember what it was off the top of my head) daily and then wrap it with gauze and vet wrap to prevent him from scratching it. He couldn't really reach the area with his mouth.
About the X-rays, if that vet took digital X-rays, they should be able to e-mail them to you otherwise they'll have to send them via snail-mail.
ETA: The only issue I had with Scooter's recovery was that he kept scratching at the abscess with his back feet. I had to clean and dress the incision site and apply a topical antibiotic (I can't remember what it was off the top of my head) daily and then wrap it with gauze and vet wrap to prevent him from scratching it. He couldn't really reach the area with his mouth.
Last edited:
SCchin
Well-known member
Is gassing ok for this? The exotic vet that filed his molars said you needed anesthesia and IV fluids, but that took over an hour. I would think removing an absess would be quicker. I am not sure this will be a thicker content, since it is new. An absess that has been around awhile might be that way (??). We have SMZ antibiotic from the molar filing, there was an ulcer in his mouth then, I am wondering if it developed into an absess and that is what we are dealing with (except when we got the incisors trimmed, it seemed to be ok).
SCchin
Well-known member
OK, its an abscess. Quito was in my daughter's coat hood (while it was still on her). The vet says "this might just work" (remember she fainted last time, and Quito is not very easy to keep still). He was petting Quito, pulled out the needle, and quickly got about half of the puss out.
We are going to do antibiotics for two weeks and watch it. It is in the same place as the ulcer was. Hopefully that will be all we need to do!
Thanks all!
We are going to do antibiotics for two weeks and watch it. It is in the same place as the ulcer was. Hopefully that will be all we need to do!
Thanks all!
I would see if you can get copies of the xrays or photos of the xrays sent to you - it is possible that the abscess is visible on them (but then again, it may not be) but it is definitely worth getting them for comparison purposes.
Abscesses can be a PIA to treat & preventing any infection from getting into the bone (in this case, the jaw) is important. It can take quite a while for the antibiotics to kick in properly so longer term courses are often needed.
Good luck & please do keep us posted on Quinto's progress.
Abscesses can be a PIA to treat & preventing any infection from getting into the bone (in this case, the jaw) is important. It can take quite a while for the antibiotics to kick in properly so longer term courses are often needed.
Good luck & please do keep us posted on Quinto's progress.
SCchin
Well-known member
Update: The vet drained out about half of the pus at the visit last week. We are on day six, and it isn't growing, but isn't shrinking either. Its about the size of a pea.
Does it take awhile for these to go away? He is on antibiotics 2x a day. At what point do they decrease in size usually?
Does it take awhile for these to go away? He is on antibiotics 2x a day. At what point do they decrease in size usually?
SCchin
Well-known member
UPDATE: Two weeks of antibiotics didn't get rid of the abscess. So the vet is taking it out tomorrow. Not too thrilled at his cheek getting shaved... He is going to gas him, drain it, and get the whatever you call it that is encapsulating it out, then antibiotics for a few days.
Sound right? He did mention letting it go, then it explodes and goes away. He says that works for dogs and cats, but I didn't want all of that infection being turned loose, so opted so get it out.
Also, any tips of what to do with a small incision? I'm sure he will paw at it.
Sound right? He did mention letting it go, then it explodes and goes away. He says that works for dogs and cats, but I didn't want all of that infection being turned loose, so opted so get it out.
Also, any tips of what to do with a small incision? I'm sure he will paw at it.
aznmexaggie
Chinchilla Chateau
I'd get a collar to prevent him from pawing at it after surgery. You will likely have to handfeed as well. Scooter found the incision site very itchy...
The problem with treatment of many of these abscesses is initially not knowing the type and strain of bacteria which is causing the infection. Some are not susceptible to sulfa antibiotics, some are not susceptible to Baytril-like antibiotics, etc. That strain of bacteria may not have been susceptible to the antibiotic you used and likely a different class of antibiotics will need to be used this round. Culturing the bacteria on antibiotic agar plates can also show what it is susceptible to... we used chloramphenicol because it is not commonly prescribed here (thus, bacteria are unlikely to be resistant) and it is broad-spectrum.
The problem with treatment of many of these abscesses is initially not knowing the type and strain of bacteria which is causing the infection. Some are not susceptible to sulfa antibiotics, some are not susceptible to Baytril-like antibiotics, etc. That strain of bacteria may not have been susceptible to the antibiotic you used and likely a different class of antibiotics will need to be used this round. Culturing the bacteria on antibiotic agar plates can also show what it is susceptible to... we used chloramphenicol because it is not commonly prescribed here (thus, bacteria are unlikely to be resistant) and it is broad-spectrum.
SCchin
Well-known member
argh.....
It is $170 to culture it..... and less for the surgery!! Once it is gone, the culture won't be necessary, right?
Is it bad to just cut it out? I didn't want to do the surgery, and the vet said we would culture it first, but it is really encapsulated. So I agreed that it could be cut out.
It is $170 to culture it..... and less for the surgery!! Once it is gone, the culture won't be necessary, right?
Is it bad to just cut it out? I didn't want to do the surgery, and the vet said we would culture it first, but it is really encapsulated. So I agreed that it could be cut out.
SCchin
Well-known member
He is wondering if there is a hay piece, or food piece in it, and even if we culture it, he feels it may not go away with antibiotics alone. It started as a mouth ulcer from being cut by his teeth.
Did you manage to get copies of the X-rays?
It is worth bearing in mind that an encapsulated abscess can be adhered to the bony structures of the jaw & so it may be impossible to remove completely. If the capsule cannot be removed in it's entirety then culture will be absolutely necessary - to treat any infection which remains.
Until the vet gets in the mouth to see the capsule/abscess properly I think you may need to consider all options. The other thing to consider is that there is no guarantee that further abscesses do not develop - if the abscess is at the base of a tooth or involves tooth roots then it is a definite possibility. This is why seeing the x-rays to check that the abscess is not visible on them is important.
Post-op your chin's mouth is going to be very sore & will also be at risk of further infection because it will have a hole in it (basically) or a wound even if it is stitched (not always possible). You're going to need to continue with antibiotics as at least a preventative measure so, again, culture would be useful.
It is worth bearing in mind that an encapsulated abscess can be adhered to the bony structures of the jaw & so it may be impossible to remove completely. If the capsule cannot be removed in it's entirety then culture will be absolutely necessary - to treat any infection which remains.
Until the vet gets in the mouth to see the capsule/abscess properly I think you may need to consider all options. The other thing to consider is that there is no guarantee that further abscesses do not develop - if the abscess is at the base of a tooth or involves tooth roots then it is a definite possibility. This is why seeing the x-rays to check that the abscess is not visible on them is important.
Post-op your chin's mouth is going to be very sore & will also be at risk of further infection because it will have a hole in it (basically) or a wound even if it is stitched (not always possible). You're going to need to continue with antibiotics as at least a preventative measure so, again, culture would be useful.
ticklechin
Well-known member
Do you have cats or rabbits?
SCchin
Well-known member
Abscess is out, the vet got it all. Not attached to anything. We got the x-rays, and also took another set yesterday. No tooth involvement. The vet didn't stitch it, said it was deep (he cut it out from outside, not through his mouth). He wants it to drain because it was deep. So we have an open (but small) incision. I have SMZ, but Essentia suggested Baytril. We are still in the parking lot..... I am going to try to get Baytril instead.
What do we do with this open sore??? We are not driving home (don't want to have to drive back) until we get it all sorted out. He is rolling in the bedding of the carrier. Would it be better to put old towels in his cage? We use care fresh bedding. I'm also wondering about hay in the cage bothering the incision.
No cats or rabbits at home.....??
What do we do with this open sore??? We are not driving home (don't want to have to drive back) until we get it all sorted out. He is rolling in the bedding of the carrier. Would it be better to put old towels in his cage? We use care fresh bedding. I'm also wondering about hay in the cage bothering the incision.
No cats or rabbits at home.....??
mishellyshel
Chin Slave
someone recommeded a small collar to keep him for being able to get to it.
i think towels/fleece and or paper towels would be a good way to keep it clean.
definitely get baytril and probably some metacam for the pain.
i think towels/fleece and or paper towels would be a good way to keep it clean.
definitely get baytril and probably some metacam for the pain.
