What you expose YOUR children too...

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The one thing I've noticed not only while I was growing up, but with my friends and now my siblings who are getting into the preteen stages, is that when parent's say "because I said so" it makes the kids want to do it that much more the thing that went through my head and I know my friend's a lot was that, "well, obviously that because they don't have a real explanation there isn't really any need not to do, or to do it in some cases" I think that parents need to actually explain why they don't want their kids to do something or why they want them too, saying just because I said so isn't going to get the point across. Even if it does make the parent and possibly the kid uncomfortable depending on the conversation/situation it'll turn out for the best, in my opinion at least.
 
Drugs and alcohol are illegal. That is comparing apples to oranges. We are talking about clothing. I would not oppress my child's self-expression. If they want to wear miniskirts, saggy pants, whatever, then fine - but I will not pay for it. Clothing is clothing.

My point is the consequences involved. If my daughter wants to dress like a harlot, then she will deal with the name-calling that results. If my son wants to wear his pants around his ankles, then so be it. Let them be stupid. Let them learn.

What makes a certain type of clothing wrong? As long as it doesn't violate any indecency laws, I don't see why it matters. The same goes with "explicit" music, or sex scenes in movies. Why are people trying to shelter their children from the human condition? All that does is make them more jaded and cynical when they finally do learn it.

Everyone has sex, everyone swears, everyone wears stupid clothes. My point is to educate the hypothetical child about the consequences. They will learn on their own. It is a learning tool.

Although violence pretty much disgusts me, and I would not allow it. There is no glory in the death and suffering, real or otherwise, of other people.
 
well you just said
Everyone has sex, everyone swears, everyone wears stupid clothes

guess what? Everyone DIES, and sometimes it's violent, we are not all lucky enough to pass in our sleep...............
 
Drugs and alcohol are illegal.
Actually, I know for a fact in MN drinking alcohol while under 18 on your own property with parents permission and parents present is legal. However, you may not step foot off your property, you still may not drive any motorized vehicles, and it has to be ONLY the parents child.

point is the consequences involved. If my daughter wants to dress like a harlot, then she will deal with the name-calling that results.

In my opinion, that isn't really proper parenting. Some girls do it out of self-esteem issues like how it was mentioned earlier, and if their self-esteem is already down low, adding name calling and insults into the batch is not good at all for the child's well being at all, and could result in death of the child. Everyone in middle school and high school are nasty, and even on rare occasions the parents even join in to email or text the child that she's a sl*t or what ever the name may be, and it doesn't always stop at name calling either.
 
Dang, it's just clothing. Why so serious? If a kid wants to dress stupid, then they'll learn and stop dressing that way.

Also - sex, swearing, and death is natural. I agree with that. Violence is not. Disagree with me all you want, I'm not going to change my opinion. You can tell me that I "shouldn't have kids" and that "that's not proper parenting" all you want. There is no perfect method of parenting.
 
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Dang, it's just clothing. Why so serious? If a kid wants to dress stupid, then they'll learn and stop dressing that way.

Because I know a girl who committed suicide because of teasing because she was wearing stupid clothing. As a parent it's their job to protect them even if it is just from stupid clothing. The simplest or stupidest things could very well be the most important.
 
Because I know a girl who committed suicide because of teasing because she was wearing stupid clothing. As a parent it's their job to protect them even if it is just from stupid clothing. The simplest or stupidest things could very well be the most important.

Then she probably should have stopped wearing that clothing and/or talked to someone about it.
 
Then she probably should have stopped wearing that clothing and/or talked to someone about it.

:/ She did stop, just because you stop something doesn't mean that the talking will stop, people have memories and they use it. Once your labeled a sl*t in the high school world, it never goes away. And when your 13-16 years old the last thing you want to do is tell your parents that everyone at school thinks of you that way.
 
The problem is you can tell your kids what is wrong and what is right, but there really isn't a way to make them understand that until they are able to grasp it. They have to pretty much get it on their own, so when they are young they're just going through the motions and it means nothing to them. People can say that all they need to do is instill good values in their kids, but those lessons are wasted if a child can't comprehend them. At this point, I can see the attraction of sheltering. I'll make their world simple and clear until they can deal with the outside world. I get it, makes some sense. Except like someone said, you can't actually do that. Kids leave the house. So at some time, in order to properly educate them about the things they see out there, you have to acknowledge it with them. It's a delicate thing to recognize when that point comes. I do agree that some parents wait too long to try to explain things. I mean, my god, if I had enough insight to figure out on my own that while it made me feel unwanted to know other people (mostly peers in school) thought I was superficially inferior to them, they were looking for validation based on aspects of themselves that held no genuine importance, it definitely would have buffered the excruciating pain of middle and high school. No one explicitly explained that to me. Everyone said I would feel differently when I was older, and I do, but I might have understood it then had someone taken the time.

You tell your child they are perfect, no one is better than them and then they get to middle school and high school where everyone thinks that. Suddenly they see that they aren't the most attractive or smartest and they are told they're worthless and they believe it. They have to succeed and get a job because that's what life is. And if someone doesn't write a certain letter or number on a certain piece of paper then they're a failure. It isn't either being coddled when they're young or belittled when they're older; it's the meeting of the two. It's abrasive and incredibly confusing. If both those stages were muted a bit I think we'd have more well adjusted people.

My parents started out raising my brother and I relatively the same. My brother is four years older and is like Peggy's son: listens to bad music, but has always been very nice to everyone including my parents. I was not. And my parents tried to change their ways to raise me well but they weren't sure what to do all the time. They would get quite frustrated and make mistakes but they tried very hard. I remember my mom looking at me, with pain in her eyes, telling me she didn't know how to help me, how to give me the guidance I needed. She wanted to be a good parent and fix me but she couldn't at that moment. I don't really think it would have been possible for her to. And this is the dilemma a lot of parents are faced with. Parents aren't omnipotent, and they aren't right all the time. But you do what you think is the best option at the time. There is no set way to parent every child, since every child is different and will react differently. And you can't really mold them to make sure they never get hurt.

Parenting (at least with human kids), seems to me a complex science that I am unsure I could ever figure out. These are my opinions from the opposite end of the spectrum, as a child.
 
I think there is a massive difference between theory & practice ........... ;)
Those with experience have illustrated that very well in this thread.
 
I think there is a massive difference between theory & practice ........... ;)
Those with experience have illustrated that very well in this thread.

You nailed it Claire.

We all start out young and naive and say things like "when I have kids I will or won't ...." Then we grow up, gain some maturity and experience and the ideas we thought when young go right out the window.
 
I find it interesting that, rather than accept that there are different views on parenting, several people insist that I must think these things because I have no experience and because I am naive.

Perhaps I am, but it probably isn't good manners to assert that when one does not know a person beyond an internet forum. That seems to be just a tad presumptuous.

I encourage those who disagree so severely with me to ask themselves this question: Is being honest and open with a child, allowing them to know the world as it is today (instead of hiding it from them) and encouraging them to express themselves freely really so bad?
 
I find it rather interesting you refuse to listen to us that say we thought different when we were like you and didn't have kids.
It's not till you have kids that you see the world differently. Being a parent changes you in many ways.

I do allow my kids to express themselves, but they do it under the confines of what I consider permissible.
 
Pash - Over the years on the forums I have watched people with no kids, especially young people, tell us all how kids should be raised. I've watched people who have not been married give advice on how marriage should be, and then get indignant when many, many married couples say - uh huh, sure, right. Until you have kids, you can say whatever you want. Until you are IN the situation, you do not know, and you will not know. You can make any wild claim you want about how you are going to raise your kids, I'm sure we all did as well, but until you have walked a mile in our shoes, your talking is just talk, it isn't based in anything other than fantasy.

That is not being rude, that is a fact. A youngster can no more give me advice on raising kids than I can give a neurosurgeon advice on how to perform brain surgery.
 
Pash, what will you do when your daughter gets raped due to the way she dresses? There is an unfortunate expectation that goes with that set of dress, and while she may firmly believe in abstinence and no sex until marriage, if her clothing doesn't support that, there will be that expectation and when she says "no" it's not going to mean crap.

Also, how would you feel if your 13 year old child was walking down the street in next to nothing, and some old pervert were staring at her, fantasizing, ogling her? These are the things that, as a parent, it is your job to try and protect your child from. And children need to be taught that they DON'T need to look like Britney or Lindsay or whoever the **** will come up in the future in order to be wanted, respected, and liked.

I can't imagine letting my children walking out of the house looking like a (for lack of a better word) whore or "hoodlum". My children are going to leave my house looking respectful and I hope to **** will understand that they don't need to look like celebrities do to be liked or appreciated. I also think Keith would murder me if I left our daughter leave the house in a micro mini or even a regular mini and clothing that showed EVERYTHING.

Frankly, I will do everything in my power to stop my child from being so pedo's dream, and Keith agrees with me...
 
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yeah pash, it is SO hard to say what you think you would do and then you are put in a situation and everything you thought you would do goes right out the window.
and that still happens. one month i have one opinion, than i get in the sitution and i handle it completely different.
the thing is with kids.........this sick instinct takes over, the kind of thing that is truly unexplainable. the kind of feeling that people say......i would "kill" for my kids.....actually becomes more of way of life. most good parents will do anything to make sure their children are not hurt. and while teaching some lessons to your children is a good thing. sometimes, letting your daughter dress in a way that makes some sick demented boy grab her behind the bleachers and do things that would make you sick.........is not the kind of lesson.
i am all about expressing freedom of speech & clothing & music taste.........but to a degree. purple hair.....sure. going commando.......i dont freaking think so! i will NEVER forget this little girl in 3rd grade who didnt wear underwear. NEVER. kids do not forget that kind of stuff. and when you are a parent and your child comes home crying and begging you to not send them to school ever again because they were not wearing the right clothes or sneakers or whatever is heartbreaking.
 
I haven't told anyone how to do anything, I have simply said what I would do in that situation. I haven't been angry at all with anyone, just vaguely amused at how self-righteous some seem to get about this issue. I never said any one way was correct or not correct, I simply presented an opposing view.

There is one thing that did anger me.

Don't you EVER say that a woman is at fault for being raped. She was not raped because of the way she dresses, or the way she does her hair, she was raped because the rapist is sick. It is NOT the girl's fault for the way she dresses, it is the rapist's fault for being a RAPIST.
 
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I'm not saying it would be HER fault. I'm saying that it's a sick fact to that sort of dress. There is an expectation that follows that sort of a "style" and unfortunately, regardless of what SHE says, there may be someone who isn't going to listen, especially at a drunk high school party.

ETA: It's also a statistically proven fact that, while the woman may not THINK she's encouraging it, women who dress like whores are more likely to be raped. Keith said he will go back-to-back with you on that statement.

No, it's not their fault, but it makes them more of a target for it.
 
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can we get a :lock2: here because some :shutup: and if we keep going on this some may get :ban:
 
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