Unsure after vet visit

[Veronica]

George (up till now a perfectly healthy 3 1/2 year old) was on Baytril for 9 days for a URI. He went off his pellets, though did continue eating some hay, produced normal looking poop but very, very few of them. His belly feels swollen to me - kind of hard to tell because he's a good sized chin who always has a big belly.

So we went back to the vet today. The vet said he's not in stasis because if he was, he wouldn't be producing any droppings. She said he also doesn't have bloat because if he did, his belly would be taut and his is kind of squishy. He went from 731 grams when he had the URI to 712 grams today. She heard a heart murmur and said this could be the whole cause of the URI and the lack of appetite and general malise.

They did an x-ray (see attached). She said the heart is normal sized, but there is a lot of gas in the cecum.

We left with Metacam. She said to discontinue the simethicone because it doesn't work and not to worry about him not eating pellets - focus more on hay and work with Critical Care (6 to 9 ml at least once a day). She also said that acidopholus may or may not work with hind gut fermentors. She said the hay is the best bet for gut motility.

She would like to do an ultrasound of his heart later on.

Opinions please. . .

 

[addictedtochins]

bump

 

[starleomach]

there is a lot of gas. He needs to be treated for gas and stasis.

 

[Essentia]

6 to 9ml? Wow...that's way off. If the chin isn't eating at all, I feed around 100ml daily. If they are eating a it, usually around 50ml daily. I also would not stop with the simethicone. It does work, and I use it often when hand feeding.

The only thing I agree with that your vet has said, is not to focus a ton on his pellets and to force feed him (though once again she is really wrong about the amount) until the gas is gone and he has his appetite back.

Considering he is off the Baytril right now, I would keep pellets and hay in his cage at all times. He may nibble on them, and you don't want him to lose interest completely.

 

[Veronica]

When I went to the vet, I felt so confident as to the problem and the treatment. I figured she'd want to do an x-ray because this vet office is, imo, all about the $ - they're the only vet in my county and neighboring county that even sees chins and they take advantage of that. Their nonemergency exam fee alone is double of my regular vet.

I did not want an x-ray, wanted to treat for bloat/stasis first, with an x-ray later if that didn't work (we've already spent $300 at this vet in the last month). Then she completely threw me when she started talking about the heart murmur. I wasn't prepared to deal with that. And the vet was certain the heart was causing all the problem.

When she came back to say that the heart was normal in size and that he was full of gas, then she started talking about an ultrasound and diuretics - in the end I left without help to fix the problem. It's so frustrating because I'm spending the same amount of money to see this vet as someone else is paying to see a vet who really knows what she is talking about.

She thinks that the reason he has so much gas in his belly is because of my giving him simethicone, syringe feeding food and water - because he's swallowing air. So at least he has metacam, but only hay to try to ever get rid of the gas. I'm still giving simethicone. I cannot afford to go back to this vet - and don't feel that she would listen to me anyway - so what do I do next?

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

I would NOT go back to that vet. Hand feeding is necessary for your chin to survive. The simethicone is needed. My vet explained that what is does is surround the gas and helps it to pass thru the instestines. Look for another vet. I am sure someone from Michigan can suggest a good chin vet. Your chin might need fluids get this point

 

[jarp]

Where in Michigan are you Veronica?

 

[ticklechin]

As far as the heart goes, if the heart is normal size then the ultrasound is a waste of time. The symptoms of congestive heart failure in chins, which enlarges the heart, and is caused by a class 5 murmur and higher, is heaving when breathing, lethargy, blue tinge to the lips and tongue and if the chin is a white, blue tinge to the ears.

If there is gas in the cecum, simethicone does work and works well, gas down low it may not be effective. The simethicone breaks up the gas bubbles to make them pass easier.

 

[Veronica]

Good to know the other symptoms of heart troubles. George has nothing even close to that.

I'm in southwestern lower Michigan, near Kalamazoo. I see a reference to a vet in Lansing, but that's an hour and a half away. If anyone knows of someone in Van Buren, Kalamazoo, Cass, Allegan or Berrien counties, I would appreciate it!

Do I need to try to get other meds to get the gut moving and reduce the gas? He does produce some poop, but not normal quantities.

 

[ticklechin]

I would use motility drugs and simethicone, for right now give him a full dropper of simethicone every 3-4 hours, massage his tummy-work from the top to bottom with gentle circular motions and get him running around, do that every couple of hours or so. I would do this until you get a bead on another vet and the drugs, asap if possible.

 

[jarp]

I'm in the metro Detroit area so I can't help you as far as vets go. It looks like you are going to have to drive the hour and a half to Lansing for the vet care. I know it's a drive but It doesn't sound like you should stick with the vet you have now and you don't really have the time to try out other vets to see what they know about chins. Good luck.

 

[Veronica]

I called the office manager at the vet's office and left a message saying that I want my money back for the x-ray that never should have been done in the first place. This vet who advertises herself as an exotic expert should have reconized that George had none of the symptoms of congestive heart failure and I really feel taken advantage of. It really angers me.

I am SO thankful for this website. I hate it when being a good animal caretaker is defined soley by money & I also hate it when people take advantage of that.

I am going to call my regular vet's office to find out if she can prescribe the motility med for me - dunno if she can without seeing George or not, but it's worth a try.

Anyone know of a good vet in Elkhart County, Indiana? That's about 45 minutes from me.

 

[ChinDaddyFL]

Xrays are useful for seeing the condition of the gut, though, so it wasn't entirely a waste--you can see when its full of "stuff" and if there are gas pockets (the dark circles), which will help with a stasis or bloat diagnosis. An ultrasound would have been excessive, however.

 

[ticklechin]

Even a "layman" can hear gas noises and you can "feel" the gas also. The xray was "nice" but the vet should have been able to give a prelim diagnosis of gas without it, JMO.

 

[Veronica]

I called my regular vet (does not claim to be a chin expert) and she said that cisapride can be hard to get, but suggested I ask for Reglan. She said the person who actually saw the animal has to write the prescription.

I don't know if the vet I saw yesterday will give me the Reglan because she is just sure he's not bloated or in stasis. I'll give it a try when they call me back to tell me they're not going to give me my money back for the x-ray. So frustrating. . .

 

[mishellyshel]

keep on the the simethicone and do a little belly massage to keep it moving. try and bump up the amount of critical care you are giving.

i would first ask for the the cisapride. I wuldnt doubt the doctors abiltiy or knowledge because that will probably tick her off...........but maybe discuss with her you thought the xray was not necessary and maybe she will comp you the meds????

my vet never claimed to be a chin expert but she is great with chins and she takes suggesstions and looks things up and consults with other vets when unsure. maybe you can educate your regular vet and go to her for the basics.

i hope your litle guy will be okay. i have had a boy with that amount of gas and it takes a while to get thru. you will actually see the little gas bubbles on their poop and that is a good sign, as it is passing thru.

 

[firestar]

i wonder why your vet didn't just pop the ultrasound probe on his belly to check for gas pockets that way? it's a ton easier (usually cheaper) to do that then get a chin to cooperate for an xray. i'm curious, did they sedate your little man for his xray? i hope not, it's a big stressor for them to be sedated while not 100% healthy.
as far as the heart murmur, i'd hold off on the ultrasound. the stress of being ill plus being at the vet's can cause an animal's heart to have an irregular rhythm that's usually gone once they're healthy and at home. if your kiddo isn't showing signs of congestive heart failure, then i'd just keep an eye out for those signs & just focus on the intestinal issues you have going on.
good luck & keep us posted!