Treats

[jess_w]

I've just bought some treats for my chin off the internet - dried dandelion leaves and flowers, herbs, rosehips, stuff like that. I don't know how much of these things is okay to give him though... I have heard many people saying to just give a tiny pinch of one of these things a day, at the most. But wouldn't this type of stuff be available all the time in the wild? They wouldn't be eating hay and pellets in their natural habitat, they'd have access to all kinds of food. So do you think it's really bad for them to have more than a tiny bit of this stuff, or are people over-sensitive to it because they know chins are sensitive to other treats like fruit and veg?

Also, does everything they eat have to be dried, or is it ok to give them fresh herbs and dandelion leaves? How often would you say they could have fresh things?

I've tried alternatives to food treats like giving him pieces of wood but he is not really interested in chewing things - I think I must have been lucky with him in that dept! lol =)

 

[Stackie]

"Wouldn't they do that in the wild" is brought up all the time. You have to realize that the chins we have now in captivity have evolved and are very different from chins that live in the wild. You can not compare them to what they would do in the wild because they have adapted to captive live. I personally only give my chins one treat once a week, such as a pinch of rose hips or oats. They get apple sticks daily, which they seem to love even more than treats.

Dandelion is a diuretic, so I wouldn't give a bunch. Herbs must also be given sparingly as well, but I'm not too knowledgable on herbs and their side effects.

 

[mishellyshel]

i give my 2 boys about 1 teaspoon of a mixture of lifeline & this herb mixture that i got from WWW.QUALITYMUTATIONCHINCHILLAS.COM every night in a special bowl. every few days i will give a whole rosehip or 1/2 a mini shredded wheat. i was giving them 1/2 a cheerio every morning, but i think that is too much so i do it every other day.
right now my one chin is sick, so i beef up his lifeline and add probiotics & acidolphilus.
i have come a long way though from what i used to feed them before coming to this forum!! raisens, a peanut every night, crappy snacks from the pet store! now they get NONE of that (well once in a while i will split a small raisen in half & give them that, but like once a month). i do make sure they have plenty of wood stuff to chew and other non food treats.

 

[jess_w]

Thanks for the info so far!
But I have to politely disagree with you, Stackie - chinchillas have been "domesticated" for less than a century. This is really not enough time for any significant evolution to take place, and I would say that actually they are still quite similar to how they are in the wild. I'm sorry to correct you because I'm sure you know a lot more in general about keeping chins than I do, but what I do know a fair bit about is biology.

If they had evolved/ when they do eventually evolve, there is very little chance that they would evolve to have a more sensitive digestive system, as this has no benefit whatsoever to the animal. If/ when evolution does take place, they will probably develop a less sensitive digestive system, as it would evolve to accept more of the rubbish that people who do not know better feed them.

You could argue that it may become more sensitive as in captivity they have a very bland diet of hay/ pellets... but sadly I think there are far more people out there who feed their chins junk than bother to find out about the real needs of the animal =(

 

[Stackie]

Jess, I am a biology major in college so I know my fair bit about biology as well.

While per say, a whole separate evolution may not have occurred, our chinchillas are used to their diet of pellets and hay that they have been fed over the years. They have adapted. You can not compare our chinchillas that we keep now to their wild counterparts. The chinchillas in the wild are accustomed to their foraging patterns- the chinchillas that are domesticated are accustomed to their pellets and hay and have been since they were brought here. A chinchilla's digestive system is so delicate that even changing a brand of pellet can create an upset- so to say our chinchillas nowadays can be compared to the chins in the wild, it would not create and upset to start feeding them say...weeds, roots, and bugs (yes, wild chinchillas eat bugs.)

 

[jess_w]

I agree that they have adapted to life in captivity, but as you said, they haven't evolved. Surely it's similar to a case where someone who had eaten nothing but tofu all their life started eating pizza? They would have an upset stomach the first few times, but that's not to say they couldn't go on to have a normal diet, given time to adjust, as their actual anatomy is no different to any other human.

I wasn't saying that domesticated chins are exactly the same as wild chins. I was saying that they are comparable, and because the digestive system hasn't physically changed, I would still argue that this is true. I'm not saying it wouldn't create an upset if I started feeding him exactly what they would have in the wild, or that I would want to start feeding him that (If I thought these things wouldn't create an upset I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place).
But I do think if a chinchilla was slowly introduced to it there is no reason why they couldn't (eventually) live off it, just like their wild counterparts, and I can't see a reason why things like roots, leaves etc couldn't make up a good part of their diet in captivity if someone were to try with them. Like you said, a change of pellet can create an upset, but they "get used" to the new pellet and then they are fine.

Gone a bit off topic here anyway! Any more answers to my original question?

 

[ann1]

Well chinchillas are more comparable to their wild ancestors then they would be to a fully domesticated animal such as a dog/cat/hamster.....or....whatever.
The thing is that their hay/pallets have been worked on for years (by many many old time "ranchers" whom lost a lot of chinnies along the way) while trying to come up with something equivilent to their nutritional needs.
To answer your question, No it is not what they would eat in the wild but we don't have acess to their natural diet which to the best of my knowledge is roots, grasses and some occasional wild berries (no bugs that i've ever heard of) Different seasons bring different foods which they eat.
I wouldn't feed them to many of "any" treat myself. They are not found in their native home in the Andies. Their digestive tracts have not adapted to everything we humans have given them. Do they like it? sure. Is it good for them? Probably not.... Does a small child like candy all the time? sure. Should we give it to them all the time cause they want it? Probably not. Gonna end up with a belly ache. In the case of chinchillas at the very least "their going to fill up on it and not eat their pellet/alfalfa"

 

[EveningChin]

Actually, yes they have evolved, not their diegestive tract persay. In the wild there are two kinds The brevicaudata and the Lanigera. They are not the same as the domestic chinchilla we all know and love. Mathias F. Chapman brought eleven chinchillas back from Chila in 1918. Three of the elven were female. Given the amount of genetics, the gestation period and the ammount of time domestic chinchillas have been bred in the U.S. a significant change has appeared in the animal at the very least physically. I would say this is due to human breeding standards for health, fur quality, and physical appearance.l (Oh how we love our blocky chinchillas)

The problem with feeding a diet of fresh herbs and flora is that we do not have what they'd be feeding on in their natural habitat, and definately not in the same quantities. What we do know is that their diet was high in fiber and roughage and that is what we are recreating with hay and pellets. The natural habitat of the chinchilla is the dry part of the chillian Andes thus the reason why we feed nearly exclusively dried foods. Their digestive tract can just not handle the kind of water in plants from more moist climates and lead to serious health complication.

As for the "fresh" diet I know of one person who has endevoured upon this and was "successfull". She is a breeder and has one 'test' group that she has raised on a fresh diet of herbs and flowers (Hay of course being included). She has had this group for 5 years and logs what she feeds them daily. She does not yet know what effect this diet will have on their diegestive tract or health in the enitire course of these chinchillas lives, thus the reason she has a test group and continues to feed the rest of her animals pellets and hay. Your example of a person eating tofu all their life and then eating pizza and getting and upset stomach isn't quite adaquate. A strict vegatarian ingesting the smallest amount of meat oils would have an upset stomach, this would be more comparable to a massive digestive reaction. Days if not weeks of severe vomiting and diarrea. In the case of chinchillas this can be easily deadly and quickly.

It is up to you. If you feel that you have the understanding of what each plant does and its nutritional value and what your chinchilla needs in its diet then make a study of it and tell us how it goes. (That sounds sarcastic but it really isn't meant to be. ). But I think you will find most people advise against it strictly for the health of your chinchilla.

And just for the sake of the evolution discussion and fun some pics of the diffeneces in chinchillas. (Brevicaudata, Lanigera, And domestic)

 

[mishellyshel]

wow sarah i feel like i just got a personal tour from my favorite part of the zoo.........the small mammal house! that was a most excellant description. thanks! i love the pix too, the middle one looks like a large mouse!

 

[jmdebb]

I would just like to say, first of all, personally i'm not sure about the herbs, I'm sure someone will come and answer that.

But as for your chin not chewing what you have put in your cage. Chins need to chew to keep their teeth from growing, if they don't chew their teeth will continue to grow and cause death. So you need to always have chew toys in there for him. If he doesn't like the things you have used in the past there are many chew toys out there you can try, I'm sure you will find something he likes. Chins can be finicky even with chew toys. So if you need a place to look for some different chew toys just ask and you will be given lots of links, plus alot of people in here sell stuff for them.

Please make sure you always have chew toys for him to keep his teeth short.

I'm saying this because of what you said in your post:
---------------
I've tried alternatives to food treats like giving him pieces of wood but he is not really interested in chewing things - I think I must have been lucky with him in that dept! lol =)

---------------
Good luck,
Jean

 

[ann1]

Actually, yes they have evolved, not their diegestive tract persay. In the wild there are two kinds The brevicaudata and the Lanigera. They are not the same as the domestic chinchilla we all know and love. Mathias F. Chapman brought eleven chinchillas back from Chila in 1918. Three of the elven were female. Given the amount of genetics, the gestation period and the ammount of time domestic chinchillas have been bred in the U.S. a significant change has appeared in the animal at the very least physically. I would say this is due to human breeding standards for health, fur quality, and physical appearance.l (Oh how we love our blocky chinchillas)

The problem with feeding a diet of fresh herbs and flora is that we do not have what they'd be feeding on in their natural habitat, and definately not in the same quantities. What we do know is that their diet was high in fiber and roughage and that is what we are recreating with hay and pellets. The natural habitat of the chinchilla is the dry part of the chillian Andes thus the reason why we feed nearly exclusively dried foods. Their digestive tract can just not handle the kind of water in plants from more moist climates and lead to serious health complication.

As for the "fresh" diet I know of one person who has endevoured upon this and was "successfull". She is a breeder and has one 'test' group that she has raised on a fresh diet of herbs and flowers (Hay of course being included). She has had this group for 5 years and logs what she feeds them daily. She does not yet know what effect this diet will have on their diegestive tract or health in the enitire course of these chinchillas lives, thus the reason she has a test group and continues to feed the rest of her animals pellets and hay. Your example of a person eating tofu all their life and then eating pizza and getting and upset stomach isn't quite adaquate. A strict vegatarian ingesting the smallest amount of meat oils would have an upset stomach, this would be more comparable to a massive digestive reaction. Days if not weeks of severe vomiting and diarrea. In the case of chinchillas this can be easily deadly and quickly.

It is up to you. If you feel that you have the understanding of what each plant does and its nutritional value and what your chinchilla needs in its diet then make a study of it and tell us how it goes. (That sounds sarcastic but it really isn't meant to be. ). But I think you will find most people advise against it strictly for the health of your chinchilla.

And just for the sake of the evolution discussion and fun some pics of the diffeneces in chinchillas. (Brevicaudata, Lanigera, And domestic)

Very well said.... I might also add that our "pet" chinnies are mostly thought to be a cross of the two.

 

[Ash]

Wanted to add:

The herbs and plant material you're offering isn't what the chins would be receiving and finding in the wild either. They live in a dry desert area. They're not going to come across dandelions and hibiscus petals, and stuff like that. So unless you could totally mimic what they'd eat in the wild, down to the exact material, I wouldn't even try to make an attempt. Also, some herbs and plants have bad side-effects for chins.

Here's a website that lists some of them - http://www.serillachinchillas.net/botanicalherbsinfo.htm

 

[EveningChin]

wow sarah i feel like i just got a personal tour from my favorite part of the zoo.........the small mammal house! that was a most excellant description. thanks! i love the pix too, the middle one looks like a large mouse!

Thanks, I hope it sounded good, it took me about a half hour to write. Lol! I also love the Languira, they look so springy.

Very well said.... I might also add that our "pet" chinnies are mostly thought to be a cross of the two.

Thanks! I should have added that. Oh well. I still can't believe that all our chin kids came from three females!

Ash-

Well said! And that is an awesome site!
Edit: Stratch that, that is the coolest site I have seen in months! Wow! Way awesome!