Tear duct flush

[Pokei]

Hello all,

I've been having a problem with my chin Pancake for about 1 month. He's been having problems with his eyes. It started off as a tearing eye that didn't go away for a couple of days which evolved into an infection that spread to the other eye. I went to the vet and got eye drops to use for 10 days. After that, the eye got infected again (I dont' think it ever cleared as he was squinting in 1 eye) and I had to start another set of drops from the vet for 14 days. Also the vet did a dye test to see if the eye was scratched and if the dye can drain out of the tear duct. We found that the eye was not scratched and the tear duct was blocked. The vet thought of doing a tear duct flush, but was going to look into it as she has flushed rabbit ducts but not chinchillas. She was hoping that the drops would clear the infection and possibly the duct if it was the infection that was causing it. I should mention that I did the second set of drops for 10 days as Pancake was getting too stressed out and losing more weight and not eating. His eye seems ok now, with no drops and me cleaning it when I see stuff collecting near the eye. I will see the vet very soon, but I don't think that the duct has cleared as his tears are still collecting and not draining. Luckily Pancake during this entire time has acted the same.

I've been weighing the pros and cons of getting an x-ray done to see if it's a problem with his teeth. I will admit a part of me doesn't want an xray done because I don't want to know if Pancake has the root elongation problem...that would tell me he has little time left with me. I've also been debating about having a tear duct flush done by the vet....but haven't really seen much information on it. I am aware that if it is a root elongation problem that a tear duct flush would be a temporary solution to alleviate that symptom.

So out of my own curiosity, has anyone heard of a tear duct flush for chinchillas? Any pros and cons or other methods of unclogging the duct?
(Sorry for the long background, I figured it's best for everyone to know it! Hope it makes sense!)

 

[tunes]

First, before you flush the tear duct (and no, I have not heard of it done in a chin before, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been) have you tried any oral antibiotics? I often treat an eye infection with a two part treatment - eye drops and oral trimethoprim sulfa. It will frequently clear up issues that drops alone won't.

Second, if you have tried drops, ointment, and oral antibiotics and none of it works, then yes, I would definitely consider getting x-rays run. I know it's hard, and nobody wants to know if it is malocclusion, but not getting it done and not having your chin cared for properly is much worse than knowing, IMO.

Ask the vet for some oral antibiotics and try that in conjunction with either drops or ointment for the eye, and see how that does. If it doesn't clear it up, then I would definitely want x-rays, just to reassure myself that all is well.

 

[ticklechin]

I just discussed this subject with my vet when I went through a scare with Guido. They cannot flush tear ducts and the only treatment is a course of oral antibiotics and drops-14 days, then daily drops forever or as needed. I did have the x-ray done to check if the incisor roots had blocked the tear duct drains.

 

[Pokei]

Thanks

Thanks tunes and ticklechin for the advice. I'll definately try the oral antibiotics with eye drops and see how that works.

Out of curiosity, when the chins get an xray are they placed under GA or held down? I just can't picture Pancake staying in one place while it's being done.

 

[ticklechin]

Guido was gassed, its quick and easy.

 

[Pokei]

Phew good to hear!

 

[Pokei]

Update: I noticed last night Pancake's jaw was protruding more than normal, so I checked out his front incisors. The wear on the incisors is not straight, more of a 1/2 circle; with matching 1/2 circle on the bottom. Pancake is also not eating as much ( but still eating thankfully) and not destroying his chew toys as much as he usually does. I also forgot to mention that he hiccups every now and then after drinking water.....I didn't think anything of it before but now it makes sense that it happens if his jaw is not aligned. Even though these signs are very slight, I have decided to get Pancake in to get his head x-rays done, teeth trimming if needed and possible tear duct flush (depending if they can do it or if it is worth doing....). I've done vet visits a little too late with my previous chin long ago who had dental problems; I had no idea drooling was a bad symptom...and only took him to the vet when he couldn't get his fur rings out and in essence when his teeth were really bad..he never recovered and went pretty quick. So now I'm trying to be a little more proactive. I've spoke with the vet and even though they think that the teeth problem is minor which can sort itself out they also think it maybe a symptom of malo of the tooth root when taking all symptoms into consideration. I should also mention that the last time Pancake was in the vet the front incisors were checked and they were ok. That was 3 weeks ago. I'm surprised the teeth can grow that fast.

Anyhow, Pancake will go in next week Tues....until then, lots of chew toys and lots of love.

 

[ticklechin]

If the incisors are that overgrown, there is no doubt you need the x-ray. The incisor roots really need a close look. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[Tagna]

Oh Nicole! I'm sorry to hear all that is going on with Pancake! I really hope things work out quickly. Dawn and Peggy can give you a lot of good advice!

I'm thinking good thoughts for him! (and YOU!)

 

[tunes]

If there are teeth issues, odds are that is the eye problem, not a blocked tear duct. Even if it is a blocked tear duct, I don't know that I would risk it with a chin being so small. Dawn sees some pretty up to date vets - if they say it can't be done, I would not trust someone who isn't nearly as well versed in chins as they are to do it. I would do the antibiotics and the ointment, as we both recommended to you, and see if that helps.

If you get his teeth trimmed, be sure the vet provides you with some pain relief for him. Too many vets think animals don't feel pain or they don't need analgesia or whatever other stupid thoughts they think. Insist that they give you something for him for the pain, generally, Metacam.

 

[Pokei]

Thanks for the advice and well wishes. I was a mess after I saw the teeth. Thanks Tanya for the good thoughts

I was actually going to ask what Metacam was since I've read about it enough times in the forum. Is it a pain med and antibiotic or just pain med? I will definately ask for that after the operation/surgery. Pancake hates being handled for eye drops, so if he's in pain, dropping weight and I have to force feed him, at least the pain meds would lessen his hesitation to being handled....or at least I hope....

About the tear duct flush, the vet is aware the duct is smaller than say a rabbit's, they have been consulting another vet about the procedure. They will be doing a dye test and head xrays before even attempting it to see if it is possible. They are also telling me that it may or may not work. And the vet who will be doing it is more versed in chinchillas than the vet who I have been dealing with (which I am comfortable with since the vet I used to deal with long ago didn't know 1/2 her knowledge). All that to say yes I do have my reservations about the tear duct flush for the same reason you do tunes (Peggy?). Just that unsettling feeling that they have not done it before on a chin and no one really has done it. I'll be having more discussions with the vet before tues for sure...

Out of curiosity, I've been reading that calcium and vitamin c helps with maloclusion. My impression is that it works on some cases not not all, but I'm not too sure. Any thoughts on the matter?

 

[tunes]

Metacam is for pain relief. You don't want to give it long term because it can damage his kidneys, but for the short-term after a trim it's okay. It must have a pleasant flavor, because they never mind sucking it down.

Dawn can address the calcium and vitamin C more than I can. I have not dealt with malo extensively, especially with tooth trimmings and so on. I will say though that you may walk a fine line with the calcium. Too much calcium can cause stones, so you'll want to be careful about how much you allow him to have. Vitamin C won't hurt, because whatever they don't use, it flushes from their system.

 

[ticklechin]

When supplementing calcium I used UV light therapy in conjuction with it, as prescribed by a Canadian vet who worked with mine while we were doing a experimental treatment for malo with a chin sling. I won't go into that since its a long story but I would not supplement calcium haphazardy and I would not recommend it unless a vet prescribes it. Vit C on the other hand has been useful, it can't hurt and there has been antidotal evidence that it does help in other cases besides mine.

Just always please, think of the quality of life when dealing with malo chins, I have made many selfish mistakes when treating malo and learned that you need to step back occasionally and look at the big picture, malo can't be cured and are you treating the chins life with respect and is the chin enjoying beng alive?

 

[Rascal]

Around 7-8 years ago, my chins had maloclusion, and from the last x-ray, her teeth roots seems had started to grow, and I started to feed her Vit. C tablets(up to 2-3 tablets at the beginning) from Oxbow since then.

I am not sure if Vit.C really help, but after 3 months the nightmare(vet visit every week, teeth trimmed every 1-3 weeks) was ended by she started to feed on herself again(she refused to chew on any solid food and she relied on critical care for 3 months). Til now, I am still feeding her Vit.C tablets(1 tablets per day or every 2 days). I also read about the thread on how calcium work on maloclusion, but I didn't gave her any extra calcium supplements.

 

[Riven]

There is nothing that can undo the damage that is already done. If caught in early stages calcium and vit. C "might" help slow the progress, but I don't believe there is anything to that.

From what I've seen malo can "flare up" and cause problems, then appear to go away. My personally theory on this is that the roots are growing quickly at that time, causing the symptoms, because basically the roots of the teeth are boring their way through the jaw bones or into the eye sockets, and I'm sure that is painful. But then the growing ceases or stops for a while or possibly the chins simply learn to deal with the pain, but the problem is still there.

As Tunes said excess vit. c, will not 'hurt' anything but overdoing that for a long amount of time could cause renal problems because the kidney's have to work harder to extract it, especially paired with extra calcium which the body can basically OD on. People always think of calcium and bones, but calcium plays a very important part in total body function. It is stored in the bones for use by the body later, it helps regulate muscle function, blood volume, heart rate, and more. The max. for humans is 2500 mg per day. Let's say that's for a 100 lbs human, that would figure to about 25 mg per day for a chin, which really is not that much. Most calcium tablets are 250 - 500 mg.

I would not do the tear duct flush, I would do the x-rays and go from there... good luck.

 

[ticklechin]

....and too much calcium can actually cause a deficiency so you can see the many problems that can occur supplementing it.

 

[Pokei]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the input. Regarding calcium, I understand what you guys are saying. I've looked up ways of monitoring it, and it seems like that most common thing is to measure it indirectly through blood...not something I'm going to do.

As for vitamin c, I guess give it in moderation, unless the x-ray on tues shows it's really necessary to do? We'll see. Rascal, that's really great you've managed to work it out with your chin. I don't know if Pancake would tolerate going to the vet every week or so for teeth trimmings....he's very particular and really doesn't like being handled. He's lost some weight as I was giving him eye drops....so that tells me if 1/week at the vet for teeth trimming he might get so stressed out it that he might lose his appetite all together...that and hate me forever

I like your theory Riven. Makes sense.

Ticklechin, seems like there's a lot of experimentation on your end. Would love to hear/read about it one day out of curiousity. And yes I agree with you about respecting the chin and not being selfish. I mentioned about my previous chin many years ago that went downhill pretty fast-he gave me more than enough indications that he wanted to go...but I just couldn't. It's hard to say "yes kill my pet", but it's harder knowing that you didn't do it in time and saw them suffer. Pancake is still Pancake and until he shows me otherwise I will research, question, try to do whatever I can for him.

On that note....I'm thinking about aftercare if Pancake is in pain and can't eat much. I know that metacam will help with the pain, pellets that have been put into water and fed by syringe will help, but what about the supplements Lifeline and Critical Care? I've never used either and don't know the difference. Which is better? Where would I get these?

 

[Riven]

Critical Care is a food replacer, not a supplement. Lifeline is like an herbal supplement, a lot of people have had good luck with it. I tried some once, my chins didn't seem to care for it, but added probiotics are always helpful.

Tunes recently posted about another food replacer thingy with high regards. I would get some ordered ( either food replacer ) because it's something that's good to have on hand all of the time, because you never know when they might need it.

Good luck! Keep us updated.

 

[ticklechin]

I keep all three on hand, the LL, CC, EFL, even though I have no malo chins right now. You never know what can come up when you need to hand feed and chins can be picky what they will eat. I have fed LL as a food replacement for months, for one who would NOT eat anything else and I am a very experienced hand feeder, it was a life saver since the alternative was no food at all.


As far as my stories with experiemental malo treatment, if when you move forward and if you come across treatments in your research, PM me and more than likely I have either tired it or have done extensive research on the particular treatment you found, I am sad to say.

 

[Tagna]

Nicole, I have Lifeline on hand if you want to get some this weekend!