Sterile?

[ErinsChins]

So, before I start, please realize I do not use the same practices now that I did, say, 3 years ago. I'm sure I am not alone, so please do not harass me for what I am about to say.

When I first got into breeding I had 6 chinchillas(not including my pets), all of which were from pet stores. Two of them were already paired, the other four, I did the pairings. These chinchillas came from a small local breeder (What the pet store told me). When I put them together, they wasted no time. I had babies within 5 months from all of them. However, I have noticed that with some of my current chins (from ranchers/larger breeders) have been in breeding for 2+ years with no results. I have tried with different males and nothing has changed. Out of all of my chins, I have maybe 3 or 4 pairs that produce.

So my question is this, is their any relation to larger breeders and sterile chins, or was I just lucky?
Thanks!

 

[Riven]

Well Erin, there are a couple things that come into play here.

There are some main traits that come into play with pet store chins. Often people who breed them breed for quantity, the more they breed the more offspring they can sell from them. If you just want numbers you're less apt to have chins that produce slowly, so genetically speaking they may be more "fertile".

Also you have body type factors. Any rancher will tell you that the chins that produce the fastest are the ratty body type ones. Big chins tend to produce slower. Did you find that many of your pet store chins were possibly smaller with poor confirmation?

Certain colors also seem to produce slower, such as blacks. Although some have no problems, some are slower to produce.

Really there is no right or wrong answer, but there are usually factors involved that can often be pointed to.

One thing I've noticed about chins is that if I have a larger female who does not get into breeding until she's after a year old, she breeds slower or not at all. I don't know if this is has to due with size of the animal, if she gets too big to bred or if there is something else going on. But I currently have a white out of lines that usually produce well for me and she's been in over a year and I think she's finally bred. I held her out to show her ( she took reserve!) but she was about 14 months when I put her into breeding and she's around 860 grams I believe.

 

[ErinsChins]

Well Erin, there are a couple things that come into play here.

There are some main traits that come into play with pet store chins. Often people who breed them breed for quantity, the more they breed the more offspring they can sell from them. If you just want numbers you're less apt to have chins that produce slowly, so genetically speaking they may be more "fertile".

Also you have body type factors. Any rancher will tell you that the chins that produce the fastest are the ratty body type ones. Big chins tend to produce slower. Did you find that many of your pet store chins were possibly smaller with poor confirmation?

Certain colors also seem to produce slower, such as blacks. Although some have no problems, some are slower to produce.

Really there is no right or wrong answer, but there are usually factors involved that can often be pointed to.

One thing I've noticed about chins is that if I have a larger female who does not get into breeding until she's after a year old, she breeds slower or not at all. I don't know if this is has to due with size of the animal, if she gets too big to bred or if there is something else going on. But I currently have a white out of lines that usually produce well for me and she's been in over a year and I think she's finally bred. I held her out to show her ( she took reserve!) but she was about 14 months when I put her into breeding and she's around 860 grams I believe.

Ah okay! The chins that I had were rat faced, thin furred, and maxed out at about 700 grams (I didn't know that then though =D).

Correct me if i'm wrong, but what i'm getting is that less quality CAN produce quicker than larger, blockier chinchillas?

I usually wait until a year old to put them into breeding, so maybe that's part of it. The ones i'm having trouble with seem to be my whites.

 

[Riven]

I don't want to necessarily say that lesser quality = faster production, but it seems that way. The animals that seem to breed the fastest are the costina and langera types with the brevi types being slower. I've noticed this in my barn, and I've been told this by older ranchers. I don't know if actual numbers would tell different, or if it just seems like the ones you always want babies out of never seem to have them and the ones you're less excited about do.

It would be an interesting research actually, maybe I'll poke around and see what information I can find.

 

[Megan]

I was told several times not to put huge males into breeding that they tend to be lazy and don't breed as well. Because of this I tend to go with thick furred, very good colored males that are lacking size to larger females. Seems to do the trick for me. I do have less production now then ever- but the average female in breeding here is 5+ years old. Once I get more younger females in breeding things will pick up again. I have less kits out of my large white and violet males then I do my smaller standard and black males.

Color wise my black and my standards are producing the most kits for me. I have never *knock on wood* had an issue with my blacks being slow/non breeders.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

I too find that smaller males are quicker breeders. My number one producer is around 600 grams, but he has everything else going for him and his offspring don't inherit his size.

Now, I also have two white males that are 850-1000+ grams that breed well for me (so far).

I've only had one male (out of...15, 20?) that wouldn't breed here - he was from a large rancher but I think that's only coincidence.

As for females, I've had varying degrees of success with different aged females being put into breeding. No trends that I've noticed here, but if I can, I will put the female into breeding before she is 10-12 months old.

 

[Spoof]

Ah okay! The chins that I had were rat faced, thin furred, and maxed out at about 700 grams (I didn't know that then though =D).

Like Alicyn and Megan said - most of the aggressive breeders I've seen are small, I look for small males out of a good line. They rarely throw their size and knock up the ladies by looking at them.

I have had larger males produce, but not at near the rate the smaller ones do.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but what i'm getting is that less quality CAN produce quicker than larger, blockier chinchillas?

It's not about visible quality, it's about the genetic background. What you see is rarely what you get in offspring.

I'm sure someone will comment about crossing two GSC and not getting show quality animals. I'll go the other direction;

Sometimes if you take a "small, ratty, weak furred" animal from untold generations of color breeding you can get some amazing stuff. Take that and cross it to a nice standard from a pelt herd (isolated genetics) and you have a chance at some phenomenal animals. Particularly if they've been breeding homo beiges/whites. The reason it is important to get a standard from an isolated gene pool is that you are creating hybrid vigor. The downside is that generation two could have up to 50% ugly, 50% nice if you take them to another nice animal. It's rarely a mix of traits, you either get a blocky stunning animal or a rat. This is how further down the line you get small males that breed fast, but throw awesome babies. Five or six generations in you could take a small male out of a litter and know he is going to throw a reasonable percentage of really nice offspring.

This is how you breed vitality back into a line that either produces poor milk or litter size. You can do it with color and clarity too - the smaller, rattier body styles are known for their color over the naturally redder brevi style chins.

I have tried with different males and nothing has changed. Out of all of my chins, I have maybe 3 or 4 pairs that produce.

Most larger breeders keep a starter male around - one that may get kicked off the table for looks but can knock up even the most stubborn breeder. Once the females are started they move into a run where (hopefully) the better quality male will get a breed back on them and continue from there.