Somewhat new owner looking for any good advice...

[PikaLVR]

I bought my first chin(Pika) about 3 months ago from private dealer she was around 3-4 months at time only a little shy and took very little time to warm up to me and find her confidence(which is through the roof now, she can be a little naughty) but she has adapted very well, comes to a little noise i make and runs to me and on me freely.. I wanted a friend for her so I bought a male(havent decided a name) and gradually introduced him.. He was bought from pet store extremely shy and young I assume 3 months he was tiny but may have been from underfeeding since I could feel bones. Pika and him are now in one cage together but he is still very shy towards me and a little towards her, they do lay together alot but he hides under the little nest room and im wondering what can I do to try and open him up a little more? Will handling him to much stress him? Do I just need to have lots of patience? I am willing to do/try anything to get him even half as confident as Pika and comfortable with his new family. Please any advice..

I will also post at a later time everything im feeding and the supplements that I give when im at home and can write them down..

off my head they get mewchew chin food, some dried leaf stuff(duno the name cuz in hebrew i live in israel) but dealer said for chin and they love it, vitakraft calcium tablets, cracker and chew rock and something for there teeth that looks like block of wood but its green.

Let me know if this is too much or I need more..

Thanks

PikaLVR

 

[Vyxxin]

First, hello and welcome to the world of chins. Let me start by saying that I'm glad you came to this site for your information. I don't know how much information is known about chinchillas in Israel, but if it's like most "foreign" countries then probably not a whole lot.

I will start out by saying that if you truly love your female chinchilla Pika, then you will remove the boy chin at once. When you put a boy chin with a girl chin, you most definitely will eventually have baby chins. Sometimes this goes extremely well and you end up with cute fluffy kits. But a lot of the time bad things happen. Kits are born dead, mothers die during birth, mothers kill fathers during pregnancy...mothers having trouble getting the kits out tear them to pieces...so many things go wrong with breeding animals. That aside, you should never breed two chinchillas that you do not know the genetic history of. They could have genetic conditions that will be passed on to their offspring.

That all said, if you have already fallen in love with your boy chin, keep him...in a separate cage and let him adjust at his own rate. It would help us to know how long you've had him and what you've been doing to gain his trust.

If you are not already in love with the boy chin I would suggest getting rid of him and getting another female as a cagemate for Pika. Also, why do you believe in the first place that Pika needs a cagemate? Often chins are just fine by themselves and sometimes they prefer to live by themselves.

 

[Stackie]

I agree with Vyxxin, please take out the boy chin. They WILL breed and she does not sound like she is in ANY condition to have babies. If you believe she needs a friend, a female chinchilla will be much more beneficial to her.

 

[kaykay]

Did you plan on breeding? You need to do a lot of research before you breed chins. It's not to be taken lightly.

First of all, chins should be at least 6 months of age before being bred. You could have some serious complications with your female and even possibly lose her because of her age.

Second, pet store chins should not be bred, you don't know their history, background etc. You could be bringing more chins into the world that are open for disease, malocclusion, etc.

Certainly not last, but there are a NUMBER of complications that can come along with breeding. Complications with mom and/or kits. Complications that cost $100's even $1,000's at an Exotic vet to "fix"

But the damage is done, your girl probably is pregnant. You need to separate them immediately and start reading up anything and everything you can about breeding. And you need to find an emergency exotic vet in your area, in case you need one.

Start here:
Breeding and Babies FAQ's
Caring for Your Kits
Complications in Breeding
Not Always Easy

 

[Parkerspetchins]

Welcome to CnH!!

I believe the general thought is that females should be over 9 months and best over a year before they are bred and his girl seems to be about 7 months according to his post. She is too young in any case and it could increase the chances of complications. Pet store chins should never be bred.

Chinchilla diet here consists only of treat free quality pellets, hay, and fresh water. Some owners give an occasional treat that is low in sugar (whole oats, shredded wheat, rosehips) since chinchillas do not digest sugars well and is in general bad for them. I would throw away (or return) any treats you have that are high in sugar, most of the items you find in pet stores for chinchillas are generally not good for them . The green cube is maybe a hay cube? Those are great but I would recommend loose hay if you can acquire it as well. Perhaps the leafy stuff you mentioned is in place of it, I am not sure about that. Simple is best with chinchillas.

A great place to learn a lot is through the FAQs here

Since everyone else has expressed my sentiments already on separating your chinchillas as soon as possible I will say again, welcome, and I hope you stay around to learn all you can about the wonderful world of chinchillas !

 

[PikaLVR]

I thank you all for the concern and advice.... as far as her already being pregnant.. I doubt that could happen it is possible they are both younger than I assume the male I bought is like half the size of my female and like I said VERY shy.. I want to know why my female isnt in any condition to breed, because she is so free and confident or just to young? I wouldnt mind them breeding Im not against it and would definitely educate myself on it and read up more... Also Im assuming the male is at most maybe 3 months old.. and why arent store bought pets good to breed.. PLZ excuse me if I sound naive but the more I know the better and I will also read the FAQ's... The more I learn about the breeding process the easier for me to choose if I would want to breed them... As far as loving him, I did the moment I held him and felt I could provide for him better than the pet store... I do have 2 cages still and if that is best to seperate them I will do that so I can keep him... BTW the green blocks are vitakraft fit bits and for the benefit of their teeth.. Thanks again and I appreciate all the advice!!

 

[Stackie]

1) Your chins WILL breed, males are known to breed and get females pregnant as early as 6-8 WEEKS old. It only takes a few seconds for your chinchilla to get pregnant, and most likely, you will not witness the breeding.

2) You should not breed pet store chinchillas because you have no idea of their history, medical conditions that my run in their lines, etc. You could be breeding babies that harbor genetic diseases like maloclussion which is very painful and deadly.

3)Pitch the vitakraft stuff, despite what it says it is not good for them or their teeth..give them safe chew toys like prepared apple sticks, pumice stones, and safe wood to chew on.

 

[oxchincerelyxo]

I will warn you now that it isn't (or at least shouldn't be) if you WANT to breed or not, more like if you are ready. Personally, I don't think you are ready-especially if you would consider breeding pet shop chins. I know you said your girl was from a breeder, does she have papers??? You said yourself that the guy was very small-that right there shows that he might have crap genes and shouldn't be breed.

I do rescues over here in my state on a small scale. A few months ago I took in a mom and two kits. One of the kits was very small and the mother wouldn't tend to him. I had to hand feed him every two hours. That means when I was sleeping and working it still had to be done. It isn't uncommon for issues to happen-and it isn't just about reading the breeding facts on here, it's knowing the animals as a whole. The small kit ended up dying and the other kit cost me $400 in vet bills before all was said and done. The mother also needed vet care and cost me just a bit less.

 

[Diva Chins]

I doubt that could happen it is possible they are both younger than I assume the male I bought is like half the size of my female and like I said VERY shy.. I want to know why my female isnt in any condition to breed, because she is so free and confident or just to young? Also Im assuming the male is at most maybe 3 months old.. and why arent store bought pets good to breed.. As far as loving him, I did the moment I held him and felt I could provide for him better than the pet store... I do have 2 cages still and if that is best to seperate them I will do that so I can keep him... BTW the green blocks are vitakraft fit bits and for the benefit of their teeth.. Thanks again and I appreciate all the advice!!

Well, first off, your female hasn't been evaulated by a proper breeder. She could be horrible breeding quality and you could be contributing to the rat population. Don't take that as being rude, nothing of what I say is me trying to be rude, I'm just going to be blunt. As far as pet shop chins, I've been told that they were the rejects of pelting. That their fur wasn't good quality or they weren't good enough quality to be kept or sold somewhere other than pet shops. Pet shop chins can come with a variety of genetic illnesses and you'll be breeding that into your future offspring. He's too young to be in breeding, and I'm guessing your female is too. Males can breed as young as 8 weeks which is why you're supposed to remove males from mom's cage at that time to prevent inbreeding. I've also heard of a female chin at 9 weeks being pregnant on another thread. If you really care for her life, you'd remove him from her cage. She could be too small to carry kits properly or her pelvis could be too small to pass them. If I'm missing anything or misquoting or giving bad information, someone please correct me.

But good luck with them, but at this point it's in your and your chins best interest to be seperated. It takes more than the 111-120 day gestational period to learn how to properly breed and care for kits...Give yourself a head start and read up first. But once again, good luck and welcome to the forum.

 

[PikaLVR]

I dont take any offense to the advice given, I am openminded to blunt advice .. I am aware that it is the best interest of my chin's health and well being, hence the reason I have so much to ask.. It is important to me that my chins have the best possible life I can give them without complications... I will separate them til I know more... I did read on some site in my search about breeding about the neutering of the male?? I will try to find more info on it, but do any of you know of this being possible for ither neutering or spaying... I would prefer this to keep them together since they do get along well and Id like to eventually have them both in one cage versus 2 cages.. I dont want babies coming into the world which I cant predict the futures of... Once again thanks...

 

[Diva Chins]

Neutering would be probably your best bet if you do want them to stay together, but keep in mind it can be pricey. In the time it takes the male to heal you'll have to keep them seperate.

 

[tunes]

First, welcome to CnH and thank you for being open minded, even when people who are not experienced with breeding are giving you advice.

Second, I agree on separating them, but not because they are "pelting rejects." In fact, you can get incredibly nice animals at a pet store, purely as a fluke. Ranchers and others who sell to pet stores often have no clue about what the quality of the animal is that gets to the pet store. They are mostly pulled from mom at a very early age and sent off to fill a quota. I've heard it said that the next nationals champion could be sitting at a pet store, so that isn't the reason for not breeding. The REAL reason for not breeding them is because of unknown pedigrees that may result in health issues you just don't want to deal with, chiefly, malocclusion. Unfortunately, for every good breeder that sells to the wholesale market, there are just as many breeders who don't care what they send, and will continue to breed a maloccluding line because the bottom line is the money. You don't want to propogate a horrible illness that ends in an equally horrible death.

Third, I personally believe that anything that says "Vita-Kraft" on it should not be used for chins. They have no idea what a chinchilla's nutrtional needs are, they simply pump out junk to make a buck. There are much better, and safer treats, for your chin. Just do a quick look around the forum and there should be some threads about it.

Fourth, you can put a male into breeding at any time. It isn't going to hurt him. It's not going to stunt his growth, it's not going to kill him (although, with any chin, that's a real risk with a breeding pair). What you cannot do, however, is judge his quality to determine if he SHOULD be bred. All chins are cute, but not all chins are of a quality to be bred.

Fifth, castration can be done on your male. You need to be sure you have an experienced vet though, and it seems that in some countries outside of the US that's about as common as bigfoot sightings. Be absolutely sure that your vet can handle the procedure without putting your boy at undue risk because of his/her inexperience.

Lastly, as Vyxxin pointed out, you are putting them at risk by putting them together, risk of fights, risk of mom dying from delivery complications, risk of kits dying, etc. Be sure, before you decide to breed, that this is something you can live with.

 

[kaykay]

Guess I should have disclosed, I have no experience in breeding. Good luck.

 

[HedgeMom]

FYI, rat-faced chinchillas can be just as high quality as the bulldog faced chinchillas. So you're mistaken when you use "rat" as a derogatory term. Langiera lines have a rattier head, brevi lines have more bulldog/buffalo/blunt noses but both types are perfectly acceptable because the head isn't judged at a show.

 

[Sugarmama]

FYI, rat-faced chinchillas can be just as high quality as the bulldog faced chinchillas. So you're mistaken when you use "rat" as a derogatory term. Langiera lines have a rattier head, brevi lines have more bulldog/buffalo/blunt noses but both types are perfectly acceptable because the head isn't judged at a show.

That's very interesting, HM. I did not know that there were different lines that produced different nose shapes. Sugar and Bonnie have the longer noses, and Sprinkle, Spidey, and Stumpy(who are likely related anyway) have a shorter, blunt nose.

 

[PikaLVR]

Um, Im not sure what kind of chinchillas I have.... but they look exactly alike and very close to most of the pictures online of chinchillas, dark grey.. BTW I have seperated them.. I want to look into that maloclussion thing, When I have more knowledge about breeding and know more about my chins I may decide to have some kits, but no time soon... I will also try to find better options than the vitakraft its more difficult here Im afraid to find the things you guys may be using... I will go to a few shops and get some names and then research them... in the meantime what are safe alternatives? Someone mentioned apple sticks I think, what is that? And what should their teeth look like so I know if they are healthy? Also, the pumice.. just any pumice like id use on my feet? That sounds kinda weird... But im willing to try anything.. as long as it is safe...

 

[Sugarmama]

Pika,

Apple sticks are little branches off an apple tree. It is scrubbed to remove dirt and lichen, boiled, to kill any little bugs, and then baked to dry the wood and prevent mold from forming.

You can take a look at the safe woods list; it's in the FAC's on the website. You can make your own, if you have access to any of the trees on the list, but be sure it hasn't been sprayed with any pesticides (chemicals).

Their teeth should be orange; if they are white or light orange, it indicates a lack of calcium. If they are now on a good pellet, it will provide all the calcium they need.

If you go down to the "Chin supplies for sale" section, there are several reliable sellers of chin-safe items. They all carry high quality pellets, toys, sticks, etc. They may be willing to ship to Israel.

If not, there is a US website, www.cabirdnerds.com who sells chin safe toys and toy parts; you can find a wonderful variety there. A good rule of thumb is, if it's bird safe, it's usually chin safe. They may ship to Israel also.

 

[tunes]

I've shipped food to Spain before, so shipping to Israel shouldn't be any harder. It's expensive, but with only two chins a flat rate box would last you quite a while.

Check with chinchewy1, see if she has any apple sticks available. I'm pretty sure she would be willing to ship to you, since she ships everywhere else!

ETA: Looks like a 14 pound box of feed, sent flat rate, is around $40.00. Most people charge under a buck for food, I charge .50 cents, so you'd be looking at roughly $55.00 for a box of feed that would last you several months with two chins. Like I said, pricey, but it can be done.

It seems also that a lot of countries are able to get Oxbow and Mazuri in. You might try looking for those two particular feeds.

 

[blacksettingsun]

I, like Peggy, would like to say welcome to CnH and thank you SO much for being open-minded and taking the advice offered.

If you go to some petstores or feedstores, you should talk to the owners/managers and see if they could possibly order Mazuri or Oxbow for you. They seem to be relatively international companies. If not, ordering feed from a reliable supplier wouldn't be too difficult if you talk to some of the folks on here. There are lots on here, although you would need to contact individual sellers to see if they are willing to ship to you.

I wanted to give you my personal experience on breeding petstore chins: I took in a set of six rescues, and two of them were a petshop breeding pair. All of the chins were surrendered because "they just wouldn't stop having babies." The father of the babies had to undergo surgery for bladder stones and has a mild case of malocclussion. They had two babies when they came to me, and another after they were here. One of the kits suffered from bladder stones and had to undergo surgery at a young age. Surgery is not cheap, and Charlie's (the father) treatment alone cost more than $1,000. That may be an extreme case, but if you are not prepared for majo vet bills, then you shouldn't breed.

Other things to consider in your decision on whether to breed them (PLEASE research A LOT before you consider doing so, and please take the advice offered):

You will have to have a separate cage for the male whenever the female gets pregnant. Once she delivers the kits, she can be impregnated again the same day. This puts unneccesary stress on the female and can lead to premature kits, miscarriage, and even death of the female.

You will need to have a baby-safe cage for the kits to be in. You can baby-proof the cage that the mother is in if need be. After weaning, each kit must have a baby-proofed cage as well.

If the mother rejects one or all of the kits, you must be prepared to handfeed each kit every two hours. If you want them to survive (and sometimes they DON'T live no matter how hard you try), you must do this regardless of work, school, or prior obligations. Also, if one is very small and the other(s) are good weights, you'll need to rotate the kits with the mother so that the small one has a chance to nurse. While the others are separate, you'll need a heating pad and a carrier or something similar so that they keep warm.

After the kits are weaned (depending on the sexes), you need to be prepared to have a separate cage for each one, which could lead to you having four cages at once. If the mother doesn't get along with a female kit, you can't just stick the kit in with a brother or father; they do not rely on familial relationships when breeding. They breed because they can. Same goes for a male kit; if he doesn't get along with the father, you can't just stick him in a cage with the mother or sister.

You have to be prepared to come home to mauled kits, premature kits, those injured from falling or being stepped on, deformed kits, and so on. Breeding isn't just cute kits; there are many horror stories from experienced breeders on this website and on their own personal sites.

Sometimes a female cannot deliver the kits on her own and must have a c-section. These can be very expensive (and very dangerous, both for the mother and the kits). You should have a vet fund saved up in case of such necessity.

I think that's it for now, but I just wanted to give you some of the advice that I've been given and have learned throughout the few years of rescue work.

PS- I'm sorry this is such a long post...didn't realize how long it was until I actually posted it

 

[chinchildren]

שלום לפיקה, החבר של פיקה, ובעלת הבית

ברוכים הבאים לעולם בעלי הצ'ינצ'ילות. אני גרה בדורהם צפון קרולינה ומגדלת צ'ינים מזה מספר שנים. קחי בחשבון שאנשים בפורום הזה אינם רואים בעין יפה מה שנראה בעניהם כטיפול בלתי הולם , טפול בלתי הולם, או חוסר אחריות. העובדה שאת מחזיקה בכלוב אחד זכר ונקבה שצעירים מדי מכדי שיורבאו תקומם אנשים - ראי הוזהרת. כמו כן בארה"ב מקובל לחשוב שאין להרביעה צ'ינים מחניות מחמד שכן אין להם תעודת יוחסין. אני לא יודעת מה מקור הצ'ינים בארץ שכן הם לא היו קיימים בארץ כשאני גרתי שם לאחרונה (לפחות לא למיטב ידיעתי)

האם יש לך מזגן בדירה? מיזוג אויר פועל (גם כאשר בני האדם אינם בבית) הוא תנאי הכרחי אחרת יהיו לך זוג צ'ינים מתים (רק הקיץ מתה לי צ'ינצ'ילה כאשר המזגן שלי שווק ועד שהספקנו להתקין את החדש היא כבר מתה והשאירה אחריה 2 יתומים בני שבועיים.) אסור לטמפרטורה לעלות מעבר לעשרים מעלות צלסיוס!!!

ויש עוד הרבה הרבה לדעת. לא קראתי את כל מה שכתבו לך אבל אני אשמח לעזור לך כמיטב יכולתי