Raisins: Why are they evil?

Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum

Help Support Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
halfstache

halfstache

Beware the 2 headed chin
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
235
Location
Ceres, ca
Way back when I first started getting into chinchillas I had read that raisins were alright to give to chins in moderation, now it seems that all I hear is how they are completely horrible for them. I've read many things in many different places and I'm not sure what is right and what isn't. I've heard they cause diabetes, cause fatty livers, can't be processed by chinchillas because of the sugar content, etc. None of these make sense to me. My wife is an RN who specifically works with diabetic patients and assures me that the number one cause of diabetes is obesity and that simply eating something with a high sugar content is not enough to make someone diabetic, unless they ate to the point of obesity. Fatty liver comes from diabetes, obesity, or alcohol consumption. Another cause is high triglycerides, which can be due to sugar but should not be due to sugar alone (would need to go along with be over weight as well). As far as not being able to process sugar goes, every living thing needs sugar in order to live. Plants can not grow without sugar as it is part of photosynthesis.

I have done several searches online and have looked for some sort of scientific research which says why raisin are bad for chins but all the scientific research I could find had nothing to do with raisins. I have found the nutritional data for raisins and have found that a serving of them contains a rather high amount of sugar. Of a 40 gram serving 29 grams are sugars, Now that is a human serving, but in an equal serving of rose hips there is still 1.4 grams sugars. My point here is that while there is abundantly more sugar in raisins, there is still sugar content in rose hips.

My thought is that chins get problems from being overweight or obese more so than consuming any one specific food. I for one have always given my chins raisins and I have not witnessed any ill affects from it, but having read about possible reasons why they could be bad has really given me pause and has made me reconsider switching to a different treat. I'm not opposed to switching, but I just know how much the little buggers love them. I mean if someone tried to stop me from eating burgers I'd have a fit. I know they aren't the best food for me to eat, in fact they are far from it, but they sure are tasty and I look forward to eating them all the time.
 
Raisins are basically fiber, sugar, and a bit of vitamin C. Chins get plenty of those from hay and pellets. Most pellets also have vitamin C added as well. Rosehips are much less sugar and much more vitamin C. Chinchillas, like guinea pigs, don't produce vitamin C on their own, so they need to get it from some other source. Essentially giving raisins as a treat on a regular basis is just like you eating a huge slice of chocolate cake just as regularly. So, really it's fine to give them raisins, but only as often as you yourself have a large slice of cake. The problem with people thinking it's ok to give raisins as treats is that they give them too often. The little buggers are great at begging, but they just aren't designed to process all of that sugar.
 
While I have always wondered the validity of any argument (for or against) raisins...I figure it's one of those "better safe than sorry" things. I mean, WHY? Why feed them something that COULD be potentially harmful? There are many other options of currently approved "treats" that I really don't feel the risk is justified. I feel it's a junk food, not much value other than what can ge gotten from their normal diet. Do I know for a fact they're harmful? NO, do I give my chins things that MAY be harmful? Not if I don't have to.
 
Raisins are found to be toxic to quite a few animals. Raisins have too much sugar, and can eventually cause gas from the high amount of sugar, and with all the actually known safe treats, I agree with the above, why risk it.

When it comes to chins, there isnt much on scientific anything.
 
The bacteria that ferment starch and sugar flourish and produce the fermentation byproduct, lactic acid and also gas. The lactic acid lowers the pH in the cecum. This new acidic environment irritates the tissue lining of the cecum and it becomes detrimental to fiber-loving bacteria that chins need, causing this type of bacteria to die off. These dead bacteria release endotoxins that are able to enter into the bloodstream to cause further issues. Not worth the chins 1 second of pleasure to potentially deal with serious health issues.
 
I think doing so in moderation can be ok.... But most people cannot handle moderation. Most people think thier pets need a variety of foods daily or they will be bored. That is the argument i hear most often. No they do not need a variety of treats and the more you introduce to thier diet the harder it will be to see what is causing issues when issues arise. So it is easier to say just plain high quality pellets and good hay.

Diets can get so bad with pet owners I will not replace an animal unless they were feeding what i recomend people buy that crappy food with all the fruit/veggies then give treats on top of that.
 
To expand on what I said, this is what happens to hind gut fermenters when sugar is consumed and is not absorbed by the body before it makes it to the hind gut:

1.When sugar reaches the hind gut, bacteria ferments it into lactic acid. This changes the PH to be more acidic in the cecum and colon.

2.The acidic environment changes the bacterial population, killing off the good bacteria needed to digest fiber and it compromises the mucosal lining of the colon.

3. The byproduct of the dead bacteria is endotoxins.

4. The compromised mucosal lining allows the endotoxins to enter the bloodstream.

5. When endotoxins enter the bloodstream, the natural response to losing blood is for the vessels to constrict to stop the loss.

6. Now there is lessened blood flow to both the colon and the small intestine.

7. When blood flow is lessened (and eventually stopped altogether), there is less energy, so less peristalsis (the surging action that moves food along).

8. Then impactions occur and if emergency treatment does not happen the colon and intestines stop working and die.
 
Dawn that is by far the best explanation I've heard for why raisins along with other foods with high sugar contents are bad for them. What you said makes a lot of sense and gives me all the reason I need to feel like I'm doing the right thing by switching to another treat. I never wanted to just take something away from them that they really enjoy without knowing for a fact that it was actually detrimental to their health for them to have it. Guess I'm just the kind of person who can't just accept something people say, I always have to know why they say it and what motivates them. Anyhow thanks for the clarification, its greatly appreciated. :thumbsup:
 
I have another thought on raisins.
Over the years it has always been a practice to give raisins on two specific occasions.
At a show and when animals are moved from one location to another.
The reason behind this is that they act as a temporary laxative which is needed at stress times such as traveling to shows and back or being shipped or moved to another location.
Raisins will make them thirsty and help them to drink more water as well as act as a mild laxative.
We always recommend when people purchase an animal that they give them 3 raisins per day the first week, 2 raisins a day the second and then a raisin a day after that if they wish.
Of course, if you notice softer droppings – just cut back on the number given.
At a show we will put in 3 or 4 raisins in their feeders – again – it is to make them thirsty and act as a mild laxative to overcome the stress of travel, being at the show, etc.
This has worked very well for us and ranchers we have worked with for over 40 years.

Barbara
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There are alot of things a large ranch does that are not appropriate for a pet owner, or a smaller breeder for that matter. Hindgut fermenter no matter what animal it is is not made for sugar, plenty of research, papers, scientific things out there to prove it.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps you misunderstood my post.
I was referring to how they could be properly used for stress of a show and when shippng or moving the animals.
We do not feed them at all. Only under these two situations.

Barbara
http://shootschinchilla.com
 
Actually...sugar is something that is necessary for life. You cannot be alive or do any daily functions without sugar. It's what all living organisms use as an energy source. For the brain, heart, muscles...ALL cellular function in your body is able to exist and function by using sugar as energy.

All of the research points out that a diet HIGH in sugar (this means it makes up a large proportion of the diet on a DAILY basis) is detrimental to hind gut fermentors. A finite amount of sugar will produce a finite amount of gas and lactic acid. You will not produce the scenario you posted above with a single raisin once to twice a week. Not all of the sugar consumed will be fermented, and even if you did a 100% calculation of the production of lactic acid and CO2 from the fermentation of one raisin, it is not enough to cause bloat or serious health issues.

Just don't go crazy and give five raisins at a time or try to give a large piece of fruit every day. Moderation...give a small amount of treats one to two times a week and your chin will be fine.

Trying to cut sugar out of a chinchilla's diet is like trying to cut its heart out and expecting the circulation system not to be affected. There is sugar in hay, there is sugar in the pellets, there is sugar in oats...barley...etc. Sugar is necessary for life.

If you want to complicate things and try to talk about the "type" of sugar. Fructan is what you should worry about (not fructose). Fructan is large chains of fructose that gets fermented in the caecum. You can find it in fruit...but you can also find it in hay, oats, barley and several other items we give to our chinchillas daily.
 
Since they get the sugar in pellets and hay already, what is the need to add more sugar, that is the point. Hay, pellets and filtered water is all a chin needs, why muck up a diet like that. Its owners who need to feed junk, if the chin does not get it, the chin does not miss it. Chewing sticks are a much better choice than junk food sugar items. If you could please provide the research on the raisin and hind gut fermenters it would be appreciated.
 
Last edited:
ticklechin said:
Since they get the sugar in pellets and hay already, what is the need to add more sugar, that is the point.
Click to expand...

If that is the point, then you should state that from the beginning instead of making such a ridiculous statement as this.

Hindgut fermenter no matter what animal it is is not made for sugar
Click to expand...

Hind gut fermentors like all animals are specifically designed to process sugar and utilize it as an energy source.

When a chinchilla is highly stressed as in the situations Barbara outlined above, a quick boost of sugar is beneficial to elevate the chinchilla's mood and ward off shock. It has to do with increasing the blood sugar levels and that single raisin is not going to cause a massive onset of bloat or GI stasis. It is not biologically or chemically possible.
 
Ryerson's have done this for years at shows, and I've seen Shoots do it as well.

I was told by Butler's it was okay to give raisins in moderation. The problem is, the average pet owner doesn't understand "moderation." They think if you give one raisin then it must be okay to give TONS of raisins. (Not accusing ALL pet owners here.) They think their chins are bored with their diets, bored with their cages, whatever. Well? They probably are. A dog probably gets pretty bored sitting around all day too, but I don't feed my dog a side of beef to keep them entertained. There was a very specific schedule up above, that they recommend, not push. I personally would choose not to use it, but others probably have. I've had chins die from tainted supplement and tainted food - I take a very hard line on what I feed my chins now and I always will.

There are many things that ranchers did/do that pet owners will not. There are also many things that breeders (myself included) do that pet owners would not do. On the flip side, there is a tooooon of stuff that pet owners do that I would never, ever consider doing to or with my chins. I still don't recommend raisins as a treat. I do, however, understand giving them at a show. Does everybody? No. Do a lot of people? Yep, they do. Their animals are fine afterwards, but they con't continue to give raisins once they are home.
 
Can you provide the research that you keep stating please, I would like to read it since what you are stating is against papers I have read on hind gut fermenters and sugar-and you know what sugar I am talking about, items like raisins-what this thread is about. After dealing with bloat on 4 chins at one time after they split a apple cookie, the vet bills and almost losing two of them I will pass on sugar and also use a hard line with my chinchillas-no sugar treats, its just not worth it, and I don't feel the need as a owner to give it to them. .
 
Last edited:
Two things to add into the fray.

1. *Some* bacteria produce endotoxins when they are killed, not all.

2. Raisins and grapes have really only been found to be toxic to dogs. Not cats, nor many other species. The mechanism of the toxicity is not known. Acute renal failure occurs very suddenly, and death follows quickly if there is no medical intervention. This does not happen in all dogs that ingest the approximate toxic dose.

The gut is quite adaptable, or else any dietary indiscretion would kill an animal. Moderation and proper introduction are the keys. That being said, we still only give our chins shredded wheat and safe chews as treats.
 
I'll throw this into the mix for consideration and discussion......

Stress can elevate sugar levels in the blood and with these animals the travel to the U of P apparently was the cause.
Click to expand...
(emphahsis mine).
Taken from http://www.chinchillaclub.com/members/mag/0402mcba.html


Interestingly, if the piece of research referenced is accurate then giving raisins to stressed chins is the last thing anyone should be doing since blood glucose levels may, indeed, be raised by stress, not lowered (which is the traditional thought process).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top