Purchase agreements

[Megan]

Here's a moral question for you guys.

When a breeder has a purchase agreement, that requires a buyer to return the chinchilla if they should no longer keep it, and the breeder is willing to refund the purchase price-- what happens when the buyer doesn't hold up to the end of the deal?

What happens if said buyer turns around and sells/gives away the chin? What if it's sold/given to someone the breeder doesn't trust, and wouldn't want one of their animals in that home?

Should the new owner return the chinchilla in question to the breeder? What if the new owners refuses to, or plainly ignores the breeders requests to give the animal back?

 

[chinchillalover0927]

court....thats all i could say lol

 

[mishellyshel]

that is a pretty fine line and can get a little sketchy legally.

Personally I feel it is the original buyers responsibility. If I got a chin from someone that I did not know had the "agreement", it wasnt I who signed the agreement and therefore I should not be responsible. what if I went out and bought a $200 cage & $200 in supplies and then I had to give the chin back. Of course if it was me, i would agree to any adoption process and hope that the original buyer pay the fees or try to work something out with the breeder, since i would probably be in love with the chin and i know i am a good chin mom.
sorta like what you & i worked out with Oreo!! lol

NOW..........if the original buyer sold the chin to someone who was clearly not capable of taking care of a chin, that is where is gets sketchy. It really is the responsibility of the original owner to refund any monies and get the chin back to the breeder, as per the agreement. and if the breeder was insistant upon it, legally there was a contract and they probably would win a "case" if persued legally. although the court costs would outweigh the actual costs. but i am sure at this point it is a moral sitution.

 

[ticklechin]

In CA Small claimes courts you can't sue for specific performance, only in Superior court.
A order of specific performance is an order of the court which requires a party to perform a specific act, usually what is stated in a contract. I consulted a lawyer on a chinchilla issue I had with a breeder and we went through what I could sue for and what I could not.

 

[ticklechin]

I looked it up for you, PA you can sue in small claims court for specifice performance.

I would sue her for it.


Remedy requiring person who has breached a contract to fulfill his/her part of the contract, as opposed to simply paying damages. Ordered when paying damages would be inadequate or inappropriate.

 

[Olallie]

person B would be a stranger to the contract and is not enforceable upon them. You can only sue the one you made a contract with.

 

[starleomach]

Morally if you know there is a contract than you should contact the breeder. If you knew of the contract before purchasing from the original purchaser you are legally responsible. Like if Laurie buys a chinchilla from me and signs a contract...then sells it to Sandi who knows about the contract without my permssion Sandi is as guilty (sorry gals to use your names but we all know I will let you have my chinchillas)

SO I believe that the 2nd party can under certain circumstances be held responsible....and what it really comes down to is reputation as well. The chinchilla comunity is small. If I found out that someone did something like this to a breeder even if the breeder and I are not friends I would not deal with the people in question..

Word travels fast in the chinchilla world and a reputation is harder to repair than it is to maintain. I have never seen someone lose reputation and make it bad up. Reputation is everything

 

[Megan]

See, I think if anything it should be a good faith move. That the chinchilla should be returned to the breeder, especially if the breeder is willing to pay to have the animal in question back.

The good thing is, the chin world IS small so it wouldn't be hard to "spread the word" and caution would be out there about the original owner, and the person who purchased the animal.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Everyone is talking and answering about the legality but since you asked the question MORALLY I'm going to ignore the legal crapola.

When a breeder has a purchase agreement, that requires a buyer to return the chinchilla if they should no longer keep it, and the breeder is willing to refund the purchase price-- what happens when the buyer doesn't hold up to the end of the deal?

If I have a contract with someone to take the chinchilla back or purchase it from them if they decide they cannot care for it, I would threaten to take legal action if I do not get the chinchilla back. They signed a contract and as such cannot send that chinchilla somewhere else without the breeder's permission per the contract. Morally it is absolutely and horribly wrong for someone to do that to a breeder. The chins we breed are our BABIES and we don't just send them to the first person with $$ and sweet words or someone who considers themselves a breeder.

What happens if said buyer turns around and sells/gives away the chin? What if it's sold/given to someone the breeder doesn't trust, and wouldn't want one of their animals in that home?

I would contact the person the chinchilla went to(I've done this before) and negotiate the animal's return. Even if the person considered themselves and awesome owner and I had no evidence to the contrary...if I don't KNOW them I do not want them having one of my chinchillas, especially if it was a female. I'd be worried about them breeding the chin without my permission. I would also pursue the original person who owned the chinchillas and threaten legal action for not upholding the contract.

Should the new owner return the chinchilla in question to the breeder? What if the new owners refuses to, or plainly ignores the breeders requests to give the animal back?

The new owner would have a moral responsibility to give that chinchilla back to the original breeder if they wanted the chin back. Ignoring the breeder's request is just shady and wrong. I honestly would not sell an animal to someone if I heard they had done this to a breeder and I sure as heck wouldn't talk nicely about someone if they did this to me. It's ONE chinchilla versus that person's reputation in the chinchilla world. Just give the chin back to the breeder, but I don't think that person should be liable for the transport of the chin back to the breeder. If the breeder wants the chin back they have to figure out transport, IMO, that's only fair. The chinchilla should still go back to the breeder though.

 

[mishalaa]

sorta like what you & i worked out with Oreo!!

Since you brought up Oreo, I was not thrilled when I found out you had Klinger. I had no idea his owner was not able to care for him, nor was aware he had been rehomed. No, I did not have a contract, so there is nothing I can do about it... but morally I think I should have been asked if I would take him back, which I would have, or at the very least informed he was being rehomed and where to. It would have been the decent thing to do.

I admit, the fault is partly mine, for not having a contract or mentioning a rehome scenario in my sales policy, but it's a mistake I won't repeat.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy he's with you now. But I'm upset that he may be going back to the previous owner. (Though I do believe that owner won't ever come to claim him. At least I have that hope.)

HOWEVER, if I had had a contract and thought you were a bad owner and tried to get him back from you based on nothing but that contract with the previous owner... I don't know what I'd do. It would be tricky.

 

[mishellyshel]

I adopted Snickers & Oreo, spoke with both of the original breeders. With klinger & Jack I am only fostering. And if the original owner did not repeatedly tell me she would be reclaiming them, then I would contact the breeder(you) and make sure that I wasn't breaking a contract. Especially sine you & I spoke on more than one occassion. I would then start an adoptIon process with you, the breeder. In the case of Jack, he was a CL rescue. Like you all said the chinchilla community isn't that large and I would never want to jeapordize my reputation as a responsible pet owner.

As for your feelings on the situation, I respect how you feel but I also feel you should have contacted the original owner when you found out and/or said something to me last year. I feel bad you have felt this way for so long and I can only assure you that my sweet boy klinger is well loved & taken care of. And I will do so for as long as needed.

 

[Jill of Beans]

Until this thread I had no idea there was so much angst against me. I apologize for any wrong doing I did.

Everyone goes through things in their lives, and the details of my personal situation aren't going to be posted here - but my children, my pets, and myself were in a life threatening situation - and I had to get out.

I posted on this forum last fall - in an attempt to find a SAFE & secure place for my boys. Did I want to rehome them? No. Do I miss them - yes, absolutely.

I didn't abandon them at the SPCA, nor did I post them on CL. I looked for a knowledgable, caring home - and I was very fortunate and blessed to have Michelle offer to foster the boys.

Am I sorry for hurting people - YES, without a doubt. Am I sorry that I put my boys into foster care? No - not in the least - they are alive and safe - and that was my MAIN concern, and I thank Michelle for loving them.

 

[saphire]

Jill of Beans, no offence but I didn't know this was about you.

 

[lauralynne]

When a breeder has a purchase agreement, that requires a buyer to return the chinchilla if they should no longer keep it, and the breeder is willing to refund the purchase price-- what happens when the buyer doesn't hold up to the end of the deal?

What happens if said buyer turns around and sells/gives away the chin? What if it's sold/given to someone the breeder doesn't trust, and wouldn't want one of their animals in that home?

Should the new owner return the chinchilla in question to the breeder? What if the new owners refuses to, or plainly ignores the breeders requests to give the animal back?

Morally, the original buyer should have to return it to the breeder. (Although I haven't seen a contract that states the breeder will refund the purchase price unless it is due to a medical condition or something similar.)

If the buyer sells/gives it away and the breeder has contact info for the new "owner" and said "owner" refuses the breeder's requests, imo, the breeder has the right to attempt getting the animal back. They also have the right to exercise the legalities of the contract w/ the original owner. They are the ones who originally broke the contract.

I'd like to add though that I've seen a contract that I really like from Ashlee Burgess. I found it online while comparing breeders' contracts to see what the "norms" are regarding stipulations. I don't know if this breeder is on this forum, but will quote her contract as I think it is VERY well stated. This is from her "pet only" contract:

"The purchaser agrees that he or she is not acting as an agent for any pet shop, animal shelter, research laboratory or similar facility in the purchase of this animal. The purchaser agrees that the animal will never be sold, leased or given to any pet shop, animal shelter, research laboratory or similar facility. The purchaser agrees that this animal will not be slaughtered for its fur. If the purchaser is unwilling or unable to keep this animal for any reason, it must be returned to the seller at the purchaser’s expense without
any kind of refund or replacement. Should the purchaser wish to transfer ownership of the animal, the seller has the right of first refusal. The purchaser must receive the seller’s written permission for a transfer in ownership of the animal to another party; the new owner of such a transfer will be required to sign a Transfer of Ownership Contract with Ashlee Burgess prior to the transfer."


The entire contract can be seen here: http://burgesschinchillas.webs.com/Forms/ANIMAL SALES CONTRACT Pet Only.pdf

 

[ticklechin]

I remember the thread here in the adoption section-Megan kept asking for her boys back, why did you not give them to her?

Until this thread I had no idea there was so much angst against me. I apologize for any wrong doing I did.

Everyone goes through things in their lives, and the details of my personal situation aren't going to be posted here - but my children, my pets, and myself were in a life threatening situation - and I had to get out.

I posted on this forum last fall - in an attempt to find a SAFE & secure place for my boys. Did I want to rehome them? No. Do I miss them - yes, absolutely.

I didn't abandon them at the SPCA, nor did I post them on CL. I looked for a knowledgable, caring home - and I was very fortunate and blessed to have Michelle offer to foster the boys.

Am I sorry for hurting people - YES, without a doubt. Am I sorry that I put my boys into foster care? No - not in the least - they are alive and safe - and that was my MAIN concern, and I thank Michelle for loving them.

 

[mishellyshel]

she did dawn. i drove and picked them up and was going to deliever them to megan and then decided to adopt them from megan & monika. i met up with megan and brought Oreo for her to see he was okay & a few supplies and we agreed that i would keep him.

the chin in question is not megans but mish's and that chin is only being fostered by me, with the expectation to return to jill.

 

[mishalaa]

I've contacted both parties via PM and consider the matter closed. I apologize for stirring things up, I was trying to be on topic with the original post without naming names.

 

[Megan]

Jill of Beans, no offence but I didn't know this was about you.

This thread WASN'T started about Jill. Thank You.

 

[saphire]

I know Megan, it was just to say that no names where mentionned in the thread and the thread is what it is, a question on purchasing agreements.