Pumpkin Seeds n high sugar diet induced Diabetic weight gain and health problems.

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Eric4144

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
92
This may be better served somewhere like the health forum. I wasnt sure? I read a very interesting article the other day that I thought may deserve some mentioning perhaps mostly for rescues that get chins with these related health problems. Anywho the article stated that lab rats that developed diabetic obesity(sp?) due to being fed an exclusively high sugar diet experienced significant weight loss and blood sugar and insulin levels were stabalized at a healthy level when fed pumpkin seeds as part of their diet. Im not sure on the amounts per body weight or any specific details. Ill look for the article tomorrow again. However I was currious as to what others thoughts would be on the possible health benefits this would afford chins with such problems. Perhaps in moderation considering most seeds have high fat levels which are extremely bad for a chins liver but it is interesting to note that there was cell regeneration in the lab rats with organ damage because of diabetic obesity.

I also just suddenly thought that perhaps I should make it clear that I AM NOT advocating feeding your chins a high sugar diet and feeding pumpkin seeds will make everything ok. I just want to make sure thats not percieved incorrectly. I FIRMLY believe sugar should be extremely limited in a chins diet. I just thought this article to be thought provoking and perhaps of some benefit to someone.
 
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It would be helpful if you could provide a link to the full article or a PDF so that we can read it & interpret the results for ourselves. No-one can really comment until they have read the document. :read:
 
My opinion, the thought of feeding food full of fat is nuts. Did you read the thread here not long ago where the chin ate a pumpkin seed and almost died?
 
Ok here is a link to a similiar article to the one I read. I will continue to look for the exact study.
http://authorpoppet.wordpress.com/health-articles-recipes/pumpkin-health-article/

Tickle chins could you provide a link to that thread I personally find that incredibly hard to believe. What led the owner to believe it was just the one pumpkin seed? I'm not calling anyone a liar I'm just currious to the facts of the situation.
 
Eric4144 said:
Ok here is a link to a similiar article to the one I read. I will continue to look for the exact study.
http://authorpoppet.wordpress.com/health-articles-recipes/pumpkin-health-article/
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It's hard to take anything seriously (on a blog called "Poppet's Imagination Captivation") which is entitled "Another Pumpkin Fairy tale" - I thought you were referencing scientific studies, no?

Anywho the article stated that lab rats that developed diabetic obesity(sp?) due to being fed an exclusively high sugar diet experienced significant weight loss and blood sugar and insulin levels were stabalized at a healthy level when fed pumpkin seeds as part of their diet.
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This whole premise is flawed - if you specifically feed a high sugar diet & then reduce the amount of sugar you'll get weight loss, blood glucose & insulin stabilisation - that's not rocket science & I would like to see the actual scientific papers in order to comment further.

It is also my understanding (ratty knowledgeable peeps please correct me if I am wrong) that rats can tolerate nuts & seeds far better than chinchillas. In fact, many rats eat seeds & nuts as treats without detrimental effects on their wellbeing. Chins are not the same .......


ETA I think the thread Dawn is referring to is this one:
http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21974&highlight=pumpkin
 
Are you serious? That is the article? Chins and rats are apples and oranges, why waste time on looking at funky rat articles when you are dealing with chinchillas. AND why do you keep thinking you are going to reinvent the way chinchillas are fed, K.I.S.S, keep it simple stupid. Feed them pellets and hay, period.
 
Claire D said:
It is also my understanding (ratty knowledgeable peeps please correct me if I am wrong) that rats can tolerate nuts & seeds far better than chinchillas. In fact, many rats eat seeds & nuts as treats without detrimental effects on their wellbeing. Chins are not the same .......
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While rats and chins are both rodents, their digestive systems and nutritional needs couldn't be more different. Chinchillas are herbivores and rats are omnivores. Chinchillas are hind gut fermentors and rats are not. Rats can and do eat seeds and nuts without any complications. But I don't make them a huge part of the rat diet as they are extremely high in fat and protein and therefore are detrimental if overfed. Here nuts and seeds for the rats are a rare treat.
 
It's always interesting to read these types of studies, but I would want way more proof than just one or two studies before I attempted any "experiments" with my own animals. I would also not be too quick to say that because this study was allegedly successful in rats that it would be in chins as well. (I know you are not advocating this.)

I would read the study because it was interesting, but interpret it with caution.

ticklechin said:
Are you serious? That is the article? Chins and rats are apples and oranges, why waste time on looking at funky rat articles when you are dealing with chinchillas. AND why do you keep thinking you are going to reinvent the way chinchillas are fed, K.I.S.S, keep it simple stupid. Feed them pellets and hay, period.
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I totally agree with this!
 
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People need to stop compairing chinchilla diets to other animals, chinchillas have very different needs than a rat, GP or bunny each subspecies is separated for reasons. they are different and should be treated as such..And really that article not convincing me in any way...
 
My last say on the subject:

Chinchillas who are not fed a proper diet of large amount of roughage, long stem hay and water will have chronic hypomotility (slowing of the digestive tract) which will lead them to be prone to stasis in any event that leads to inappetence. Hypomotility (slowing of) of the GI tract can alter cecal fermentation, the pH of the cecum and and the microflora populations can be altered threatening the favorable microorganisms and promoting the growth of bad bacteria and a increase of toxins. When chinchillas are fed a high energy low fiber diet-this would be nuts, seeds, fatty foods, junk food and they do not receive enough fiber who suffer from the chronic hypomotility and will be more susceptible to GI stasis if there is any cessation of eating. Not feeding enough fiber and roughage will cause problems with the overgrown teeth and with the hypomotility of the gut, so why on earth do you want to fill a chin up with fruits, nuts and cereals and leave no room for what they need to stay healthy and live a long time, fiber fiber FIBER.
 
Ticklechins you are quite the pot stirrer. In no post have i ever advocated reinventing a chins diet. Im not even advocating this. I found a flaxseed and pumpkin seed study. It wasnt the specific study i was looking for and pumpkin seed specific. I offered the article to suffice for now. I will look for the article ive only had a few minutes online today very busy. Ill look again till i find it. Further more tickle chins i said i dont advocate this but i did however consider that perhaps it could be helpful in chins that the damage has already been done with feeding improper diet. It was also interesting to note that pumpkin seeds helped reverse liver damage. Ill also further look for research on the effects of pumpkin seeds on hind gut fermenters. I also didnt see much evidence that a pumpkin seed caused gi stasis in one chin in the thread. Im currious as to what else may have been accessible. We may never know. Few people admit to feeding ten raisons on a forum notorious for discouraging even one rarely.
 
I feed my chinchillas HAY and PELLETS, I am not the pot stirrer, you are with your threads about nutrition. Go ahead and experiment on your chins with your strange feeds and nuts and such, they are your animals. You will not find one owner who has dealt with GI stasis that will agree to feed their chins pumpkins seeds, nuts, fruits or any other ideas you have on the subject of nutrition. Feeding pumpkin seeds to improve the liver on a chin with hepatic lipidosis, yeah......
 
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Since chinchillas are still considered to the domesticated pet world there IS a limited amount of credible scientific research available. While I agree that this article isn't a great example, I think we should be open to new ideas about chinchilla biology and husbandry. That's not to say I am going to run off and overhaul my animals' diets based on this research, but there's no harm in reading it for the purpose of further educating ourselves.

For the life of me, I can't understand why some people get so worked up about any new idea that is put out here. Just because someone tosses out a thought doesn't mean they are advocating anything that is harmful to chins, just they had a thought and wanted to share it with others. Isn't that what we're supposed to do here? I didn't read anything that indicated the OP was at all advocating this idea, or that he was planning on "experimenting" on his own chins. He just found a study he thought was interesting.
 
Thanks to the above poster. Ticklechins is still bringing up old baggage in which i asked a simple question about y a feed would be bad (temporary situation) if the treats were removed if I balanced the protein levels with a legume hay based on the recomended dietary needs of a chin thankfully I found my own answer and did NOT use the feed. DRAMA Im just opening a discusion that encourages further research that such questions raised may save a chins life that did not get fed a proper diet that has health problems and damage. It is a discussion about future possibilities. I almost want to give up but I refuse. If we stop looking at the possibilities without further honest research and sharing it is our beloved pets who will suffer despite the hooplah. For the record one final time I feed a good quality feed and good quality hay with only occasional safe healthy treats. Im not advocating anything this is a discussion on the possible benefits of pumpkin seeds on a chinchillas diet.

I have to take my grandmother to radiation in the morning and work a long shift afterwards time allowing I promise to present the exact research I previously discovered and will look to find any information for or against the arguments presented thus for. Thank you for your thoughts.
 
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Its a article on rats, we are talking apples and oranges, the digestive systems are not the same, the diets are not the same since chinchillas are herbivores and rats are omnivores. Chinchillas are hind gut fermentors and rats are not, so how is this info useful to chinchilla owners? That is the point, if this paper that was presented was on guinea pigs or rabbits maybe, but rats no. If people want to experiment on malnurished rescues that is their problem, I have worked with them and a healthy diet is what works over time, so if it ain't broke don't fix it.
 
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Thats not the exact study I read but it is very similiar.
Here is an interesting article on pumpkin seeds in treating horses (hindgut fermenters) with pumpkin seeds to heal ulcers. http://goodhorsekeeping.blogspot.com/2010/12/ulcers-in-horses.html
Here is an interesting article about animal digestive pricesses.
http://web.utk.edu/~amathew/AS530-2.html
It does list rats as hindgut fermenters but only a portion.
Here is an article about bloat in small herbivores including chins.
http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/avhc/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=648139&sk=&date=&pageID=4
This is bout all I got time for right now.
Tickle chins we all agree with you. No one is saying go out and feed your chins anything other than the staples of feed and hay. No one is endorsing experimentation with rescues but we are looking at information and discussing it. I also found all sorts of other interesting articles earlier not related to pumpkin seeds. Flax seed seems to reduce gas possibly a plus. Ill look further. I'm sorry to start such a thread and not contribute much I just got a lot going on.

I also want to make sure I mentione here that a chins digestive system like a horse or rabbits is designed to ingest and process sparse vegetation like grass continuously through out the day. Seeds are like little pockets of concentrated nutrients. If you ever do feed seeds it should be very limited. While plant cholesterol is very good for us to much to often may be very bad for a chin. Notice that the horse with the ulcers treated with pumpkin seeds is only given a half a cup a day in comparison to its massive body size as compared to a chin. Amounts should be adjusted accordingly. Perhaps a very small peice a day or one to at most two a week. I think it would serve better for a treatment of something to be a very small peice everyday and just untill the treatment is no longer needed. Again these are just ideas I dont reccomend trying anything without consulting a knowledgable professional.

Mmmm...... After rereading those articles and serrious consideration perhaps one small pumpkin seed a day would be both safe and sufficient for some sort of treatment? Considering that still the vast majority of the diet is still roughage plant material. I still firmly believe all a chin needs are its dietary staples but I am still considering that there is a possibility that perhaps there may be safe foods given in moderation that may enhance a chins diet like rosehips and may encourage a longer fuller life prevent certian diseases and heal ailments and problems. Honestly what began this thought process is my aging grandmother developed cancer and I have since learned of many foods that have been not only proven to help prevent cancer but also discourage its further growth in already afflicted patients. This got me to thinking about my little old chin. Was there anything I could do for him that would give me 20 more years w him. He is 13 now. Conventional wisdom says no. He has already had a long life.
 
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Chins so rarely get cancer that I would not change the diet for that off chance, if they come from good genetic stock they really don't get any diseases that other pocket pets get. If you look on the forum in the health section what is the predominant problem there? Teeth issues, that is what needs to be focused on to have a chin live a long life. Domestic chins do not chew enough to replicate what their wild ancestors did, the wild chin needed to chew constantly to get any nutrition to live on. Domestic chins mainly pet chins get all kinds of tasty things to eat that have moderate to high energy nutrition, they get their daily intake and don't need to keep eating, thus they are not chewing enough. Ranch chins get pellets and hay cubes or hay loose, both of those require chewing and they get nothing else to eat so to get full they chew.

Teeth is the predominant problem in pet chins, focus on that if you want your chins to live a long and happy life.
 
I agree with Ticklechin that for now a steady diet of hay and pellets, with everything else in extreme moderation, or not at all, is the best we know of for chins today.

That being said, Eric, I think your ideas are interesting and definitely (no pun intended) food for thought. I wish the chinchilla community could foster some more interest in chinchilla research, so we might have the chance to get answers to these, and many other, questions.

Unfortunately, until that time, anything you add to your chinchilla's diet would be "experimental". Maybe it would work, maybe it would have no impact, but it could also negatively impact your animal's health. Most of us here would not want to take that risk, at least not without a preponderance of credible of science base our decisions on. One or two studies doesn't constitute a preponderance, in my opinion, especially since the studes were not conducted with chinchillas. While chins are hind gut fermenters, which makes them similar in some ways to horses or rats, their biology is still different from those animals in key ways. This might mean that what works as a treatment for an ailment in a rat may end up being deadly to a chin.

The bottom line is this, there would need to be much more research done, specifically with chins, in order for most of us to feel satisfied that the dietary changes you suggest would be safe and effective.
 
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