nikkimariec
pit bull mama
can a 11 week old chin have papaya?
papaya?
- Thread starter nikkimariec
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AZChins
Pro Cage Cleaner Champion
No, don't give papaya to young kits until they are at least 5 months old. You could give a really super tiny piece, but definitely don't give a normal treat size amount to a little kit. It just wouldn't be worth it to give such a small amount.
hownowbrowncow
FurBaby Slave
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I'd love to add onto this: What are people's thoughts on giving papaya as a treat in general? A good decision? Benefits of it? Or will it one day go the way of the raisin (once much loved chin treat not black-listed as a chin-death-inducer)?
nikkimariec
pit bull mama
ohh I thought it helped the digestion 
hownowbrowncow
FurBaby Slave
- Joined
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I honestly have no idea, I've only recently started hearing about giving papaya as a treat so I'm looking for info
Tagna
Chin lover
I am of the group of no papaya. It is a fruit and I say no fruits. You will find some say it is fine but I don't agree.
Personal choice in the end.
As for treats and kits, I recommend no treats until they are 6 months old.
Personal choice in the end.
As for treats and kits, I recommend no treats until they are 6 months old.
ticklechin
Well-known member
I am also one of the no fruit period group, chins don't need it for digestion, they have all the help they need when they eat hay. KISS-keep it simple stupid.
lilchinchilla
Well-known member
I see nothing wrong with the occasional treat. Dried fruit given in a tiny amount as a treat, once in a while, has never hurt any chinchilla.
They do have pineapple and papaya in oxbow's critical care, and who knows how much amount that is, given over who knows how much time, since some chins are fed that for days, when they are ill. I suppose if we go with the no fruit crowd, then no one should be feeding critical care to their chinchillas.
http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vets/products/critical_care
They do have pineapple and papaya in oxbow's critical care, and who knows how much amount that is, given over who knows how much time, since some chins are fed that for days, when they are ill. I suppose if we go with the no fruit crowd, then no one should be feeding critical care to their chinchillas.
http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vets/products/critical_care
ticklechin
Well-known member
This is like a dead horse, this discussion just happened so rather than waste forum space just read this thread. It gets really old when people only come on this forum to argue rather than actually participate and help.
http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37166
http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37166
lilchinchilla
Well-known member
No, I never had a discussion about pineapple and papaya in critical care. I think you are mistaken?
ticklechin
Well-known member
Why not just answer the OPs question than argue with me, would you feed papaya to a 11 week old? I answered it as no, I would not feed it to any chin.
lilchinchilla
Well-known member
Where did this post say anything about not feeding an 11 week old a piece of papaya?
Either way, I do agree that a baby chinchilla or any chinchilla under 6 months old, does not need a piece of papaya. I usually recommend the odd occasional treat, when they are over the age of 6 months. A wonderful idea for a treat for a kit instead, is sticks/twigs or toys. They love them every bit as much as they would love a piece of dried fruit.
ticklechin
Well-known member
The OPs question was can a kit have papaya, AZchins said it could have a little bit, do you agree?
And since kits love this, why not just give the same thing as adults, the result is the same, chins love sticks and toys, the pleasure lasts longer and they won't get carries and as far as I am concerned, they won't get bloat.
http://www.lafebervet.com/small-mammal-medicine/medical-topics/dental-caries-in-herbivores/
Dental caries
Caries is a process of bacterial destruction of tooth substance. To develop, caries requires both specific bacterial species to be present and a rapidly fermentable food energy source, such as sugar, not normally present at high levels in natural diets. Tooth destruction may be superficial and of little consequence, or it can result in large cavities. These need to be distinguished from resorption lesions which may also appear as cavities in the tooth structure but are not the result of bacterial action.
Rabbits and rodents do not naturally carry cariogenic bacteria but they can acquire them from their owners. Once cariogenic bacteria are established on tooth surfaces they metabolize carbohydrates producing lactic acid as a waste product. This lowers the pH sufficiently to dissolve calcium salts out of enamel producing a roughened tooth surface. Once enamel has been affected, dental caries will appear as a change in tooth color. Caries will appear whiter if enamel is simply demineralized or darker if partial remineralization and incorporation of pigments has occurred. Once the lesion extends into dentine its collagen content is also used as a food source by bacteria and the tooth crown is gradually destroyed.
Caries rarely causes clinical signs, but lesions are common and were identified during 37% of postmortem examinations in chinchillas (Chinchilla lanigera) with abnormalities of tooth eruption. Caries lesions in omnivorous rodents with brachydont or short-crowned cheek teeth are similar to the lesions seen in humans, and the rat (Rattus norvegicus) has been used extensively in dental caries research. If dental caries are identified early, dietary correction plus oral hygiene measures such as oral rinses and even tooth brushing may be employed by dedicated owners. Even cavity preparation and placement of fillings has been described in rats, however these procedures are generally impractical and significantly affected teeth are best extracted. In herbivorous rodents such as the chinchilla and guinea pig (Cavia porcellus), teeth are usually elongated when dental caries are found. Therefore the simplest solution is to remove the affected parts of teeth while correcting overall elongation via coronal reduction and occlusal equilibration (i.e. tooth trimming) [link to dental disease]. This procedure frequently eliminates caries lesions, and if the pet will eat a more appropriate, low-carbohydrate diet they are unlikely to redevelop.
Exotic Mammal Medicine & Surgery, Vol 1.1, June 2003
Dental Disease in Chinchillas in the U.K.
Crossley DA: J Small Anim Pract 42(1): 12-19, 2001.
Abstract
Dental abnormalities are a common medical problem in pet chinchillas; however, detailed descriptions of dental lesions are lacking in the literature. This paper is the culmination of Dr. David Crossley's doctoral thesis and a comprehensive study of dental disease in chinchillas in England. Data were recorded from visual, clinical, radiographic, and postmortem examinations of chinchillas from pet homes, rescue centers, breeding colonies, and participating veterinarians. Over 600 presumed healthy chinchillas were subjected to visual and external examiniation, and a more detailed investigation was performed in 56 chinchillas. Gross postmortem examination was performed on 104 chinchillas.
Dental abnormalities, particularly those related to tooth root elongation, were detected in 35% of apparently healthy chinchillas. Of the 56 individuals presented for clinical signs of dental disease, common findings included weight loss, palpable deformity of the ventral mandible, overgrown incisor teeth, abnormal cheek tooth occlusion, discomfort on facial palpation, and ocular discharge. Interestingly, salivation ("slobbers") was not a common finding.
Findings observed on 16 lateral skull radiographs included incisor coronal elongation (100%), cheek teeth root elongation (94%), coronal elongation of cheek teeth (69%), and cheek teeth occlusal irregularities (44%). Asymmetry of dental arcades was a common finding on dorsoventral and rostrocaudal skull radiographs. In addition to these findings, post mortom examination of 104 individuals revealed caries and resorptive lesions (37%), adrenal hyperplasia (32%), and periodontal pocketing or bone loss (14%). Oral ulceration and abscessation were less common findings, being observed in only 13 individuals (7 with ulcers and 6 with abscesses).
Results of this study indicate that "maloccusion," as defined by abnormality of jaw relationship or tooth position, poorly describes dental disease in chinchillas in the United Kingdom. Rather, chinchillas suffer from a wide range of dental pathologies, particularly those involving tooth root and crown elongation. It appears that the lack of attrition is probably the most important factor in the development of this problem, with stress and nutritional imbalances being possible cofactors. Provision of a high-roughage diet that mimics the natural diet of chinchillas in the wild may reduce or prevent many of the dental problems seen in captive chinchillas.
Commentary
The chinchilla has evolved in arid mountain conditions where vegetation is fibrous and coarse, low in energy, and high in abrasive silicates. Captive chinchillas are often fed a processed diet of pellets, raisins, alfalfa, and treats that require minimal chewing and are low in abrasive phytoliths. This low-roughage diet dramatically reduces tooth wear and is thought to be a major contributing factor in most of the dental abnormalities seen in chinchillas. Offering a diet high in "chew factor" like grass hay may help slow down the development of dental disease in chinchillas.
Heidi Hoefer, DVM, DABVP
West Hills Animal Hospital
Huntington, New York
And since kits love this, why not just give the same thing as adults, the result is the same, chins love sticks and toys, the pleasure lasts longer and they won't get carries and as far as I am concerned, they won't get bloat.
http://www.lafebervet.com/small-mammal-medicine/medical-topics/dental-caries-in-herbivores/
Dental caries
Caries is a process of bacterial destruction of tooth substance. To develop, caries requires both specific bacterial species to be present and a rapidly fermentable food energy source, such as sugar, not normally present at high levels in natural diets. Tooth destruction may be superficial and of little consequence, or it can result in large cavities. These need to be distinguished from resorption lesions which may also appear as cavities in the tooth structure but are not the result of bacterial action.
Rabbits and rodents do not naturally carry cariogenic bacteria but they can acquire them from their owners. Once cariogenic bacteria are established on tooth surfaces they metabolize carbohydrates producing lactic acid as a waste product. This lowers the pH sufficiently to dissolve calcium salts out of enamel producing a roughened tooth surface. Once enamel has been affected, dental caries will appear as a change in tooth color. Caries will appear whiter if enamel is simply demineralized or darker if partial remineralization and incorporation of pigments has occurred. Once the lesion extends into dentine its collagen content is also used as a food source by bacteria and the tooth crown is gradually destroyed.
Caries rarely causes clinical signs, but lesions are common and were identified during 37% of postmortem examinations in chinchillas (Chinchilla lanigera) with abnormalities of tooth eruption. Caries lesions in omnivorous rodents with brachydont or short-crowned cheek teeth are similar to the lesions seen in humans, and the rat (Rattus norvegicus) has been used extensively in dental caries research. If dental caries are identified early, dietary correction plus oral hygiene measures such as oral rinses and even tooth brushing may be employed by dedicated owners. Even cavity preparation and placement of fillings has been described in rats, however these procedures are generally impractical and significantly affected teeth are best extracted. In herbivorous rodents such as the chinchilla and guinea pig (Cavia porcellus), teeth are usually elongated when dental caries are found. Therefore the simplest solution is to remove the affected parts of teeth while correcting overall elongation via coronal reduction and occlusal equilibration (i.e. tooth trimming) [link to dental disease]. This procedure frequently eliminates caries lesions, and if the pet will eat a more appropriate, low-carbohydrate diet they are unlikely to redevelop.
Exotic Mammal Medicine & Surgery, Vol 1.1, June 2003
Dental Disease in Chinchillas in the U.K.
Crossley DA: J Small Anim Pract 42(1): 12-19, 2001.
Abstract
Dental abnormalities are a common medical problem in pet chinchillas; however, detailed descriptions of dental lesions are lacking in the literature. This paper is the culmination of Dr. David Crossley's doctoral thesis and a comprehensive study of dental disease in chinchillas in England. Data were recorded from visual, clinical, radiographic, and postmortem examinations of chinchillas from pet homes, rescue centers, breeding colonies, and participating veterinarians. Over 600 presumed healthy chinchillas were subjected to visual and external examiniation, and a more detailed investigation was performed in 56 chinchillas. Gross postmortem examination was performed on 104 chinchillas.
Dental abnormalities, particularly those related to tooth root elongation, were detected in 35% of apparently healthy chinchillas. Of the 56 individuals presented for clinical signs of dental disease, common findings included weight loss, palpable deformity of the ventral mandible, overgrown incisor teeth, abnormal cheek tooth occlusion, discomfort on facial palpation, and ocular discharge. Interestingly, salivation ("slobbers") was not a common finding.
Findings observed on 16 lateral skull radiographs included incisor coronal elongation (100%), cheek teeth root elongation (94%), coronal elongation of cheek teeth (69%), and cheek teeth occlusal irregularities (44%). Asymmetry of dental arcades was a common finding on dorsoventral and rostrocaudal skull radiographs. In addition to these findings, post mortom examination of 104 individuals revealed caries and resorptive lesions (37%), adrenal hyperplasia (32%), and periodontal pocketing or bone loss (14%). Oral ulceration and abscessation were less common findings, being observed in only 13 individuals (7 with ulcers and 6 with abscesses).
Results of this study indicate that "maloccusion," as defined by abnormality of jaw relationship or tooth position, poorly describes dental disease in chinchillas in the United Kingdom. Rather, chinchillas suffer from a wide range of dental pathologies, particularly those involving tooth root and crown elongation. It appears that the lack of attrition is probably the most important factor in the development of this problem, with stress and nutritional imbalances being possible cofactors. Provision of a high-roughage diet that mimics the natural diet of chinchillas in the wild may reduce or prevent many of the dental problems seen in captive chinchillas.
Commentary
The chinchilla has evolved in arid mountain conditions where vegetation is fibrous and coarse, low in energy, and high in abrasive silicates. Captive chinchillas are often fed a processed diet of pellets, raisins, alfalfa, and treats that require minimal chewing and are low in abrasive phytoliths. This low-roughage diet dramatically reduces tooth wear and is thought to be a major contributing factor in most of the dental abnormalities seen in chinchillas. Offering a diet high in "chew factor" like grass hay may help slow down the development of dental disease in chinchillas.
Heidi Hoefer, DVM, DABVP
West Hills Animal Hospital
Huntington, New York
Last edited:
lilchinchilla
Well-known member
That was the whole point as to why I brought up the critical care, which seems to have gone over your head.
If you can give critical care to babies or adults, which many times in the past people say to do, and it has a tiny amount of papaya and pineapple in it, then a tiny amount of papaya is okay.
It is not going to hurt anyone, but is it needed? No. I thought I had said it in layman's terms, but I guess I needed to be more specific so you understand better.
If you can give critical care to babies or adults, which many times in the past people say to do, and it has a tiny amount of papaya and pineapple in it, then a tiny amount of papaya is okay.
It is not going to hurt anyone, but is it needed? No. I thought I had said it in layman's terms, but I guess I needed to be more specific so you understand better.
lilchinchilla
Well-known member
Well if we go with your study, Dawn... then people need to stop feeding critical care to their chinchillas, and any pellets that contain sugar (like in molasses in pellets) or hay, or anything that contains sugar in it. As we have already discussed that study before, and you know that. I do not know why you feel the need to bring that up again.
ticklechin
Well-known member
Snarky is not needed, I understand perfectly well.
ticklechin
Well-known member
And really this is pathetic, the personal attacks. It does the forum no good, it does helping chinchillas no good. Find another member to trash, I am sure you can do that since you just come here to trash me for whatever reason you came up with, I am tired of it, go actually do some good here are help people, rather that just bring drama.
nikkimariec
pit bull mama
sorry for asking a question.
didn't mean to be stupid
didn't mean to be stupid
nikkimariec
pit bull mama
someone just told me that is a saying?
sorry, I thought you called me stupid
the only reason I asked about it is because I read that it help the digestive system and my chin was having strange poops, but they actually are looking better now.
thank you for the advice and I will def stay away from all those kinda treats!
hownowbrowncow
FurBaby Slave
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
- Messages
- 113
Nikkimariec you shouldn't feel bad for asking your question, how were you to know that it would get such explosive responses? It's a good thing to ask questions and to do the research to become the best chin parent you can be, so keep at it!
