Intussusception

[chin_gal]

Thank you guys so much. Well.. the fecal came back positive. It's giardia and the vet recommends I treat eveyone. When I get home I have to take weights on everyone and call my vet so they know the dosages. I just can't imagine treating nine chins.. luckly I have my sister to help me. I'm hoping so much that it goes away with just this one treatment. What meds should I look out for? I know flagyl is usually used to treat giardia, what if they perscribe something other than that?

 

[Tanya]

I have heard that people had more success using albendazole or fenbendazole.
Good luck!

 

[Stackie]

I've been treating 8 chins with antibiotics..I won't lie, it's no fun but you get realllly quick at giving meds!

On the one treatment thing though, I believe you give it for a certain amount of time, wait, and then give another round. Not entirely sure on how medication for parasites work though, never had to deal with it personally.

I would definitely ask for flagyl.

 

[tunes]

Two weeks on, two weeks off, two weeks on is generally what is recommended for a parasitic infection. Ask your vet though, he'll advise you.

Also, get ready to cleaaaaan your butt off. Boil, bake, soak, bleach - you're going to need to do them all. Also, you might want to consider switching to reverse osmosis water, at least until this clears. Unless your water is filtered through a system specifically made to rid the water of the giardia, you could be fighting this for a long time.

 

[chin_gal]

Thank you guys. I'll post here after I hear what he recommends for treatment. As for water, I'm going to be 100% honest, I've always used tap. I've owned chinchillas for 10 years and I've never had a problem. Guess now it's come back to bite me... One thing is for sure, never again. So, would spring water be ok? Or does it have to be reverse osmosis?

And as for cleaning, would it be better just to throw away all wooden items and replace them once they get better? I'm not sure how well baking will go with metal mounting hardware still attached. And fleece, will the washer and detergent take care of it? And what about their hanging toys? Do they go too? I'm guessing I'll be cleaning/scrubbing the cages everyday, would newpaper be an ok substitute (under wire bottom, out of reach)? I just can imagine going through 10 bags of bedding easily by the end of this.

 

[tunes]

I would not use spring water. It needs to be filtered or reverse osmosis. Technically, a spring can be anywhere, and not even filtered. It just has to say "spring water" on the bottle.

I use either the reverse osmosis or the triple filtered water. I would definitely stay away from tap now that this has happened, although, it may not have been the tap at all. Giardia can simply be caused by stress. He may have stressed out from going to the show, and this is the end result.

 

[mishalaa]

Hate to hijack the thread, but I want to clarify: you mean the stress may have weakened the immune response and given an already present parasite room to incubate and attack, yes? Not that stress introduced the parasite...? It still would have had to have been picked up somewhere at some point in time, though not necessarily the show two weeks ago?

 

[chin_gal]

Thanks Tunes, I'll be switching to that. Now, would one of those filtered pitchers work?

And Mish: From what I understand, giardia is always present in the intestinal tract. It only grows out of control under times of stress when the immune system is compromised. Of course, it can pick up higher levels elsewhere that would also cause illness (ie, an infected animal).

 

[Stackie]

I use a PUR 2 stage filter pitcher. Make sure it is at least a 2 stage filter- those are the ones that filter out microbial cysts. It will give you information on the box over what it filters.

 

[tunes]

I kind of assumed she already knew that Mish and didn't need it spelled out here, since she's been to the vet and had a diagnosis given to her by a vet, but let me re-state that.

It's possible he already had beginnings of this before you went to the show, and the stress caused it to flare to the point that he died. I doubt he picked up anything at the show, because other animals would also have had it, and I'm sure someone there would have mentioned it here by now.

Yes, that is what I have been told as well by different people. Giardia resides in pretty much everbody and stress can cause it to flare. That might be something to ask our resident vet in the veterinary question section.

ETA: Sorry if that was confusing Brittney. I kind of ran two thoughts together in one sentence.

 

[mishellyshel]

tanya--i am very curious about the wild oregano oil. can you tell me the dosage and how you administered it.
the reason i ask is i JUST bought this stuff last week for myself. small bottle was 20 bux at my health food store. and i purchased it for the same reason because i heard it kills parasites and aids in general stomach issues which is what i have.
i used 3 drops in 2 oz of aloe juice and it was the most horrendous taste in the world. i cant imagine getting a chin to eat it!
you can pm me if you want with more info if it is off topic.

 

[Claire D]

Just to re-iterate what Peggy is saying - Giardia and several other organisms are present in the gut in low numbers (they are called commensals).
This article by CA chins is one example - http://www.cachins.org/health_body_parasites.html - there are many others on the internet.
This article ( http://www.scielo.cl/pdf/parasitol/v60n3-4/art16.pdf) may be of some interest as well:
It states that -

Giardia lamblia usually becomes pathogenic when chinchillas are under stress, especially in the case of newly weaned offspring or in cases
of imbalance of the intestinal flora. Changes in food and water supply, or planer shavings
contaminated with feces of other animals, as well as changes in feeding conditions may trigger an outbreak of Giardia spp on a farm. Giardiosis is associated with stressful, overcrowding, and unhygienic conditions which favor the transmission of the parasite.

 

[Claire D]

Darn, missed my edit time (sorry Admins - please combine my posts if you like)

Chin gal I am so sorry for your loss and for the turmoil you are currently going through. I do wish you all the best in treating your chins.
In the UK we use Panacur (fenbendazole) and some vets also combine that with Metronidazole - different vets also use different time schedules (which does not help!) but 5 days on 5 days off then another 5 days on seems to be fairly common practice here.

 

[mishalaa]

Heh, sorry, no that was for me. You had made it sound like stress manifests the parasite, I wasn't aware it's always present.

That said, if it's always present, couldn't fecals give false positives?

 

[chin_gal]

Got a call from the vet and I'm going to pick up the meds today. Will be doing that after class.

How about cleaning? Will the ledges be fine to boil, scrub, soak, bake with all the hardware attached? And will the wash disinfect any fleece? I was also wondering if since I'm going to be changing everyday, is there any way I could use newspaper instead of bedding? They have a wire bottom floor, so they can't get to it. Or don't you think it'll be sanitary enough? I imagine with being changed 1-2 times a day it should be ok.

 

[tunes]

Brittney - You could use newspapers or paper towels. It's not like they are going to sit there for days and days. Whatever is easiest for you to change, go for it.

I don't think it would hurt to boil and bake your wood with the hardware. You'd just have to be REAL careful about burning yourself handling it while it's hot.

Wash your linens in hot water and dry them on high heat and that should take care of it. You can add some bleach to the wash as well if you have a dispenser for good measure.

 

[chin_gal]

Ok, FINALLY got the meds last night. This has been a nightmare. 2 nights ago when we went to pick them up, the same time I took Schroeder, they hadn't been filled yet. This was partly my fault, as I've never picked up a prescription before outside an exam. I was always used to going there for the exam, leaving with meds. I took the weights, showed them at the desk, and said their after hours exotic vet couldn't fill it. So then we left a message for Dr. Herko to call us ASAP in the morning. Well.. never heard anything. So I called around 12 asking if they were ready, and they said it would take another 24hrs! We said no, we really need this medication, and we specifically left a message and were told everything was going to be taken care of. After many more calls, and much more aggravation, we got the meds last night. But it didn't end there. We got the meds and asked about how long to give it and how many times a day.. it was no where on there! and again, after hours, no Dr. Herko. I just went ahead and gave the first dose last night anyway (we had the doses, just not the time span) and finally heard back this morning. The dose is .10-.15ml (depending on the chin) every 12hrs for 5 days. Then after a week after treatment, bring in another fecal. But.. does this seem long enough to you guys?? I'll try it.. but if it comes back positive again I won't be the happiest person. I used to have so much faith in this hospital, but not so much anymore.

 

[Tanya]

Brittney , I am sorry you're going through this! It's so frustrating!

Here is some info on Giardia treatment in case you interested.
Vets have been using metronidazole(flagyl) for many years to treat Giardia in small animals. It also has antibacterial and anti inflammatory properties. Flagyl is the first choice if it's unknown if diarrhea due to giardia, bacterial overgrowth etc... However it's approximately 60-70% effective in eliminating Giardia . If an animals tested positive, then Fenbendazole represents a better choice. Potential side effects of Flagyl are anorexia, neurologic problems,ataxia , the correct dosage is very important. It is suspected of being teratogenic, so if patient is pregnant, then Fenbendazole (Panacur) is recommended. Panacur is effective in eliminating Giardia and is safe to use ( from the book small animal gastroenterology ). Claire D said that "In the UK we use Panacur (fenbendazole) and some vets also combine that with Metronidazole" .
Some also prescribe Albendazole. It's highly effective, however it does have side effects ( leukopenia and lethargy) and some vets do not use it any more.

May sound crazy but some think it's a good idea to bath a chinchilla as cysts may be in the fur and if licked off, animal will be reinfected. Perianal regions can be washed with hydrogen peroxide. Washing chins hands often is important.
Giardia is very contagious, it's recommended to change clothes after handling a sick chin, as it can be transferred to healthy ones.
I am sending my best wishes for a complete recovery! Keep us updated.

 

[chin_gal]

Thank you for that information. I will see how this treatment goes, then go from there. I've always heard of flagyl as the #1 treatment for giardia, I wouldn't think it would be if it was only 60% effective? Well, I'll try the other one if this is unsuccessful, but what if that doesn't work?

And if I did bathe the chinchillas, what would I use? I would like some other opinions about this before I think about doing it.

 

[Tanya]

Metronidazole is not FDA-approved for use in veterinary medicine,but it is a commonly accepted practice for veterinarians to use it. Fenbendazole is FDA approved for use only in dogs.
Ask your vet about bathing, if he recommends it, he'll tell you what to use.

If RX meds fail you can try Oreganol. Debra Housel wrote a wonderful article about it. Chin had gone through weeks of RX meds and it did not help. Oreganol did. www.chincare.com/HealthLifestyle/Healing.htm#giardia
Handbook of small animal gastroenterology has some great info. There is free limited preview of the book online and it happens to have Giardia info! For some reason the link does not work. So, you need to go to www.books.google.com type Handbook of small animal gastroenterology in the search books field.
more links:
www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2386
www.cachins.org/health_body_diarrhea.html
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