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[Zoaea]

It won't be long term, I am only going to give him a couple of shots these days, to relieve him of the pain, and in a week, we'll probably PTS. :<

Are you waiting for the person you were watching him for? Btw do they know what's going on with their chin or did they abandon it with you? Hope you have good family support during this hard time. =<

 

[AZChins]

I'd never want to be mean to anyone in that situation. It's a tough decision, it hard to not hold out hope sometimes. I know what that's like all too well, Kat. I'm sorry if what I said came off as harsh, but it's hard to say it in a nice way. I wish that it were easier to say it and in a nicer way. Sometimes letting the chins go with euthanasia is the best thing to do...even if it is so painful and difficult to do. (I hate saying that so much, with me I usually do whatever it takes to save a chin and give it a good life.)

 

[Lynn & The Chins]

I remember a member on here whose signature saying was, "Better a minute too soon, than a second too late".

I have not had to feel the pain of making that most difficult decision, and I hope that I never do, but it would kill me to know that one of my Chinchildren was suffering because I couldn't let it go. I'm selfish, but if it came to that, the suffering would make that decision for me.

I'm very sorry for your situation and wish you and your baby peace and release from pain.

 

[NiftyKat]

One, I am not self policing. I am stating my opinion on how people give advice on here. I am not the only one that feels this way either. I just happen to share my opinion about it.

Two, never once did I say it wasn't hard for anyone on here who has lost a pet. I was just saying that there are nicer ways for you all to put it than how you are. You yourself said you've begged vets to do anything. You can't condemn someone for trying everything possible and letting them hope something can be done. It just angers me that you are being berating. I've had lots of animals with major health problems that most people would of put down. However, my mom and I did everything we could and they lived several years with happy lives. That may not be the case here, but don't get mad cause she wants to try one more week. We aren't there, we aren't her. Everyone has to make their own decisions with what they have.

 

[Buddy]

FIRST OFF. I was letting him know he wasn't on his own in his situation. Second of all, I am not hijacking the thread AT ALL. and Third I was merely explaining that shouting PTS!!! at someone who is OBVIOUSLY DISTRESSED DOES NOT HELP HIS SITUATION. If you have been there then you will know EXACTLY what this poor guy is feeling.
Again I will explain Ticklechin that Bubbles had one xray LAST YEAR. Where her elongation wasn't "too bad and not much to worry about at that moment" This year she had a curved tooth and spurs NO XRAYS. I am unsure of her elongated roots and if they have escalated. I just KNOW that this guy needs advice instead of being told to PTS. This guy needs someone who has been there and done that and has fought and still fighting. He does not need YOU NEED TO PTS ASAP. You have no right. He's here for a little guidence up until he sees his vet. He's not here for you to tell him that he should PTS his pet. People on here go straight for it without holding back. It's rude and very insensitive. ALSO I know for a fact that EVERYONE on her will relay and reference back to their OWN situation of Malo on a MALO POST. Sorry to get angsty but you are indeed COMPLETELY out of order in saying anything like that towards any of my post. Just because I havn't been on here for long does not mean I am not experienced enough to give people advice from my own experiences. I think some people on here really do judge others just because they've already asked for a little help on their chin! No offence to some people, some are extremily nice and helpfull on this forum and others aren't. I AM NOT MAKING THIS ABOUT MYSELF. If you read back properly I merely asked a simple question if it was neccessarly to tell him to PTS. And coming off from my own experiences and how I would say when it is time to PTS. This poor guy has just been told to PTS his chin. Noone has the right to do that. And for the guy whos chin this concerns- go with YOUR vets diagnosis. He is there and he can see the chins condition first hand. If his quality of life is not improving them PTS is something you may or may not wish to think about. Don't just think "oh these people have told me to put him to sleep, so it must be the best thing to do..."

 

[Buddy]

PS: Sorry for the angry reply. But I do also agree with the person above me- explaining how some people should be nicer with their advice.... '-.-

 

[Claire D]

I remember a member on here whose signature saying was, "Better a minute too soon, than a second too late".

This is the motto by which I live with my chinchillas. Having watched a chin suffer because I did not know better at the time (I tried everything to keep my little fella going) I now make the decision to let them go while they still have that spark rather than when they are flat, lethargic, & in constant pain.
I stopped posting my motto a while ago because of the arguments we keep seeing on here.


NiftyKat, those people giving advice on this thread have ALL been there with chins who need help & we've ALL been there not knowing what to do, trying everything - with every chin you learn & most often those lessons are emotionally painful - read Dawn's post about treating malo chins & you can almost sense her pain as she writes.

I do not believe anyone on this thread is being mean but they are trying to help the OP (& Buddy). The posts are not emotionless by any means.


It's a difficult line to draw &, sadly, there is a lot of misinformation on the internet now around 'miracle cures' using diets and supplements. IMO, having dealt with chins with various stages of malocclusion, it's utter cobblers (rubbish) & simply gives false hope to desperate people. NONE of the claims have been validated to date (despite repeated requests for proof) & every chin with tooth problems succumbs to the issue in the end.


I agree with Dawn, those x-rays show massive issues & the chin must be in constant pain. I am glad the chin has Metacam for pain but, (again) IMO, it's only going to scratch the surface of the pain in the chin's skull.
I also agree that if this were my chin it would have been PTS as soon as the xrays were taken. My vet would have phoned me & we would have let the chin drift off under anaesthetic.

However, that has not happened & there's nothing we can do about the past now.

Anjali, I know you are looking for further opinions on the chin & are wanting to see another vet but he really does need to be PTS, I am afraid.
My thoughts are with you & the little fella.

 

[Claire D]

Third I was merely explaining that shouting PTS!!! at someone who is OBVIOUSLY DISTRESSED DOES NOT HELP HIS SITUATION. If you have been there then you will know EXACTLY what this poor guy is feeling.
............. I just KNOW that this guy needs advice instead of being told to PTS. This guy needs someone who has been there and done that and has fought and still fighting. He does not need YOU NEED TO PTS ASAP. You have no right. He's here for a little guidence up until he sees his vet. He's not here for you to tell him that he should PTS his pet. People on here go straight for it without holding back. It's rude and very insensitive. ALSO I know for a fact that EVERYONE on her will relay and reference back to their OWN situation of Malo on a MALO POST.
.....................I think some people on here really do judge others just because they've already asked for a little help on their chin! No offence to some people, some are extremily nice and helpfull on this forum and others aren't.
.............This poor guy has just been told to PTS his chin. Noone has the right to do that. And for the guy whos chin this concerns- go with YOUR vets diagnosis. He is there and he can see the chins condition first hand. If his quality of life is not improving them PTS is something you may or may not wish to think about. Don't just think "oh these people have told me to put him to sleep, so it must be the best thing to do..."

Buddy, I appreciate this is something you feel very strongly about, I really do, but I think you're missing the point about giving advice. Sometimes it is necessary to suggest a chin is given a peaceful & dignified ending to their life when the clinical signs (x-rays & chin's behaviour) indicate that is the kindest option. It's not always possible to continue on & those posting PTS have, indeed been there, done that. The fact that the chins cannot eat, is losing weight, & has been lethargic etc are all significant indicators on top of the most glaring evidence - the xrays. As I said above, had this been my chin, my chinchilla competent vet would have phoned me whilst the chin was still asleep under anaesthetic to discuss the xrays & we would have made the decision not to wake the chin up but to let him drift off (PTS).
That is the kindest, most loving thing to do with a chin which has no chance of recovery & is in significant (probably excruciating) pain.


Just as you have the right to post your opinions, those of us who have been through this many times, have spent a lot of money trying to save chins, have cried many tears, have vented our frustrations about malocclusion, & have had to watch others go through the same pain, have the right to post ours.
Please don't think anyone is being unkind. I can pretty much guarantee that any of us who have experience of dealing with maloccluding chins took one look at those xrays & our hearts went out to both the OP & the poor chinchilla.
We're trying to help the chinchilla.

 

[Buddy]

I know and I do understand. It just vented me when people told me that I waa making it about me when if they had read from the start the conversation started from the fact they tokd him to pts. And maybe the difference waa he had bad xrays. And I was going from what people on here told me. They told me to fight, and they've told this poor guy to pts. Malo is a life threatening thing? So why say pts to one person goung through it and not another? :s

 

[Claire D]

Malo is a life threatening thing? So why say pts to one person goung through it and not another? :s

Yes, malocclusion is a life limiting/shortening problem. In very simplistic terms the chinchilla slowly starves to death because it cannot eat properly. Malocclusion causes pain, malnutrition, & can also lead to infection. There is no cure for malocclusion - sometimes it can be managed but the chin will succumb to the effects sooner or later. It is a very, very painful condition.

The reason people on this thread are saying PTS is because of the clinical condition of the chin & because of the xrays which show what is happening in the chin's skull.

Does that help?

 

[Buddy]

Yes that does help. What do this chins xrays actually show tho? Im not an expert. All I know is that the two sets of teeth where the roots should be in one straight line. This chins teeth arent, but niether were my chins. I dont see much of a difference comparing them??

 

[Claire D]

Dawn gave a quick review here:

There are alot of things going on in that x-ray and if it was my chin it would be PTS yesterday. There is fairly advanced elongation, periodontal disease on the lower quadrant, at least a couple of abscesses, significant issues with the occlusal plane and some carries/broken teeth of the pre-molars, no amount of heroic care will help this chin, its in significant pain and hard decisions need to be made sooner than later.

If you want to start a new thread with Bubble's xrays, we could discuss them with you if you like? Do you have copies of them you could post?

 

[Buddy]

How did the chin get the disease? From the tooth issue? I did not know that could happen.
I wouldn't see much point in looking at my chins xrays as they are a year old now. But if I get a copy of them ill glady post them up and let others see and tell me what they would have done

 

[tunes]

Nifty - Yes, you ARE self policing when you start telling people how to post and telling them how mean they are. I don't really care whether you think you aren't, by forum standards you are. So stop.

Buddy - SCREAMING AT PEOPLE ON A FORUM IS A SURE WAY TO GET THEM TO PAY EXACTLY ZERO ATTENTION TO YOU EVER AGAIN. I know I would ignore you from that point on. I'm just not interested in the drama.

Claire - Excellent posts. Hopefully someone out there will listen instead of getting on their high horse about how mean everyone is when all they are trying to do is spare this chin from more pain.

 

[tunes]

Buddy - do you understand what my stars mean here? I OWN this forum. I get to make the call if you are out of line or not. So I will delete your previous posts and you will now be on moderation. If I don't like what you say, it won't ever hit open forum again. How's that for self-policing sweetie?

 

[ticklechin]

Being put to sleep rather than dying a painful death is a good chin death, it is quick, painless and it is without fear, and when its advanced malo for which there is no cure, it is necessary. Death is different for animals, they are not like us, they don't worry about it before hand, they are not afraid of it. For them a good death is just another part of life, the last part. The most important thing is that we try to give them a good life with quality, not a long life with pain.

The pain I have felt having to deal with putting a malo chin down is NOTHING compared to the pain of the hindsight of the pain I put them through by being selfish and keeping them alive at any price, and NO ONE can say they know what it feels like until you live in MY shoes or the shoes of ANYONE who has dealt with it tragically.

 

[Anjali]

I'm a little confused Anjali. If you have made up your mind to put this chin to sleep, why keep him alive for another week of suffering?

Buddy, I would be very surprised if I was one of the people who told you to keep a malo chin alive. I don't believe in it. I will never encourage it. So when I tell you that malo is incurable and a chin should not have to keep suffering for it's human, that's what I mean.

Anjali, I know you are looking for further opinions on the chin & are wanting to see another vet but he really does need to be PTS, I am afraid.
My thoughts are with you & the little fella.

Are you waiting for the person you were watching him for? Btw do they know what's going on with their chin or did they abandon it with you? Hope you have good family support during this hard time. =<

I want to ask, is his condition that bad now that he is in constant pain ? Is he suffering pain from the elongated roots, despite the fact that they have not yet reach his eyes ?

I am not looking for second opinions, he will be PTS as soon as possible. The owner did come back but he would like to spend a bit of time with the chin before euthanising him. Is this such a bad idea ?

I want to thank everyone for your support and opinions, you have made this siuation a lot easier for me and helped me clear up a lot of my problems. Thanks a lot, I really appreciate everything you guys did.

 

[AZChins]

He is in pain a lot of the time, probably most of the time. Animals hide pain very well, they sense it differently than we do but they still feel it especially when it is this type of pain - lots of nerve endings that can shoot pain messages to the brain.

It's up to the owner what he wants to do. I understand him wanting to spend time with his little guy. That makes this so hard!

 

[ticklechin]

With the metecam there is still alot of pain, metecam is like extra strength tylenol in strength, it will dull it but wont take it away. The pain in from several sources according to the x-ray, not just the roots. Let the owner spend as much time as they need to be at peace with the decision, the metecam with help with the chins pain for now.

 

[Anjali]

He has been PTS today. Thank you all for the help and support. It was a very difficult and sad decision, but it was much better than watching him suffer.