Help! Chin stopped eating

[Claire D]

Do you have Karvol available to you? It is a childrens' decongestant ( http://www.frontdoorpharmacy.co.uk/catalogue/Products/medicines/childrens-medicines1/cough-and-cold/karvol-dropper-bottle-.php ) which you can use - put a few drops on a paper towel near the cage but not so close that she can reach it to eat it - that often helps with the breathing.


I am afraid you will have to keep persevering with the syringe food - it is a difficult balance when a chin is having difficulty breathing, especially if you think she is choking. She will be feeling dreadful, be having problems with taste (think of having a horribly thick cold & not being able to taste anything or tasting snot in the back of your throat), & probably be off her food as well.

It might be worth giving her a little bit of thickened syringe food from a spoon to see if she will try that. Scatter tasty, high fibre, no sugar treats around her cage so that she encounters them when she moves - a pinch of oats, some alfalfa, a little crushed rosehip, some different types of hay - anything healthy which might tempt her to eat.

This might help: (Taken from CHINformative - http://www.chinformative.com/index.php?showtopic=1259&hl=respiratory

The vet will usually prescribe antibiotics and/or decongestants (Bisolvon) and mucolytics.

Sudafed is safe for treating chinchillas ........... In Diseases of Small Domestic Rodents - By VGA Richardson - it is recommended for treating chinchillas ........ dosage as follows "0.2ml per adult chin - twice a day".

I have found Calpol 6+ (given to a strict dosage) a useful supportive treatment.

If the chinchilla is mouth-breathing then oral treatments should not be administered.

Alternative Treatments: – Karvol drops placed under the cage (out of chin reach) can help to clear upper respiratory congestion (as a supportive therapy only). Withhold sandbaths until breathing is clear.


http://http://www.chinformative.com/index.php?showtopic=16&hl=respiratory -

The owner of the chinchilla can support veterinary care - by doing the following ....
Keep the chinchilla warm and out of any drafts - a heatpad is ideal.
Withold sandbaths - as they will irritate the nasal passages.
Ensure the chinchilla is drinking enough fluids and keep tempting the appetite if the chinchilla is not eating normally.
You can put a few drops of Karvol infant descongestant on a tissue near or under the cage - where the chin cannot reach it.
In cases of emergency (and only if the vet has NOT given an antimucosal) you can give a little Sudafed Liquid - but please use caution. Correct dosages are as follows: 0.2ml per adult chin - twice a day

Chinchillas usually respond well to treatment provided it is started as soon as possible - do not delay in taking the chin to the vets if abnormal breathing is noticed.

Can I ask, is your chin mouth breathing at all?

 

[ysy]

SteveP - no I'm not giving the drops anymore. It's hard to administer because their nostrils are so small, and she almost always immediately wiped them off. I've discussed the issue with my vet, that's why he suggested nebulising her with saline. The name of the decongestant is 0.01% Oxymetazoline hydrochloride btw.

Claire - Unfortunately Karvol is discontinued here I've tried 3 of the largest pharmacies here and they all say the same thing. I've read in another forum that I can try to use my finger to put some food on her lip and hopefully she'll lick it. I tried that this morning - made it as a paste, and it worked a little better. Probably I'm better at aiming my finger I also put my foot down and insisted that she eat. She ate a little more, but nowhere near what's she's supposed to eat that session. I've gotten her some alfafa hay and organic rolled oats and threw them around the cage. I'm searching for some rosehips and stuff (not sure if they're available here but I've never seen them)

And yes - she is mouth breathing. Not all the time, but sometimes, mostly after or during force feeding sessions, and sometimes when she is sleeping (lying on the floor).

Another question - what is abnormal breathing that warrants concern? Meaning don't wait, bring her to a vet now kind, because her breathing now is anything but normal.

Thank you all so much for all the advice and sorry about all the questions. I just want to do all I can for her.

 

[Claire D]

It might be worth seeing if you can get some sudafed liquid if you are not using the decongestant drops now. It is a decongestant available from chemists/pharmacies.

Examples of abnormal breathing are: gasping, wheezing or rattling, shallow & very rapid (more than normal for a chin, bearing in mind they breathe quite quickly compared to us anyway), any ticking or clicking noises as they breathe, heaving involving the whole body, very slow breathing compared to normal for the chin.

Breathing which is of concern is mouth breathing or breathing where the chin's chest is heaving - if a chin is mouth breathing all of the time or at rest then they need to go back to the vet really - with a URI it is not unusual for stress to make them puff a bit but if it is continuous then they may need oxygen therapy & further veterinary treatment.

TBH I would say if you are at all worried then take your chin back to the vets again - she may need some subcut fluids if she is not drinking & also some other form of decongestant or mucous reducing drug like Bisolvon.

Is she peeing & pooping?

 

[ysy]

Hi Claire,

Yes I'm planning to take her back to the vets on Monday, as there will be chin-competent vets on duty that day. She really hasn't been seen by one yet since the URI hit. She's also doing better today. Her nose is less congested and she didn't wheeze at all this afternoon - she slept the entire afternoon because she was so worn out by the force feeding i did in the morning + the trip to the vets' office where the techs on duty kindly helped me administer the injectable baytril because I'm too chicken and clumsy (plus i didn't have help) to do so. When evening comes though, she has a wheeze here and there but it's much better than yesterday when it seems she couldn't take a breath without wheezing. She also managed to drink some water without choking today.

She's still peeing and pooping although it's really little. Poops look horrible - small and hard. That is my fault mainly because I'm not force-feeding her enough. It's hard though, because she fights it so bad. She's one of those demon chins and even though she's sick, she'll give everything she's got, wheeze or no wheeze. It's heartbreaking to see. She's sleeping now - we just had another 1 hour session and I didn't manage to give her everything, most of it ended on her fur, the floor (flinging head) or my t-shirt.

 

[Claire D]

How is she doing now? Have you managed to get any more food into her?

 

[ysy]

hi Claire,

She's not doing too good. Her URI seems under control, but the problem is her eating very little. I've just came back from the vets after a panic session of finding blood on the fleece. She's in real danger of having a second prolapse. She had prolapsed once before and the lead up is very similar - pressing her belly on the floor, making pooping motions with her back legs. Vet says her stomach feels good (ie. no gas), and she is now on Cisapride. I'm now watching her like a hawk praying she does not prolapse.

She stopped pooping last night (there were poops in the morning, not at night) and this morning she pooped again fighting me and the burrito. There's a half stuck poop in her rectum and I had to ease it out. That's when she started the I want to poop but I can't but I want to motions. I also couldn't get anything in, she head flicks and spits and bites, then wheeze - on one hand I'm glad she still has the strength to fight, on the other hand I know she's headed for trouble if she doesn't get more food into her.

I've taken leave from work to stay home to watch her and boarding her at the vets tomorrow (I have something at work I can't get out of) and I'll worry about Wednesday when it comes... She's majorly pissed at me now. She bit the vet too.

 

[Mummypig]

Oh bless her. Are you still syringe feeding her? I've recently gone through something similar - my chinchilla lost a huge amount of weight due to a chest infection. I had to burrito her up and syringe feed her critical care every 2-3 hours for nearly a week and we've just weaned her on to normal food again now. Her poos also went very small and hard like you discribed. I was worried about bloat and so started her on simethicone infant drops every few hours and within a day her poo was back to normal. Is she drinking enough? I watered down the CC so that my chin was getting extra fluids. Be careful with that because obviously it makes it all runnier and you have to be really careful not to squirt it in too quickly otherwise they could aspirate and choke.

It a long and hard road, but I have every confidence in Baytril and Critical Care after our experience last week.


Re-reading what you've said, I am concerned that her gut is not moving the way it should. Are you massaging her belly? I would try and feed critical care every 2 hours and massage the belly as much as you can (and the chin lets you) - you need to get that gut moving.

Hope your little one feels better soon

 

[Claire D]

There's an excellent thread about treating gut problems from Meanie (http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6553&highlight=sparky+stasis+saga) which you may or may not have read.

If your chin is now struggling with gut stasis or slowdown then I would suggest the vet gives her some subcut fluids as well as pain relief (a bloated or static gut is very painful) - Meanie's thread contains details of how she treated Sparky on an hour by hour basis with all of the meds, abdominal massage, gentle exercise, & a warm compress.

Fingers crossed for your chin.

 

[sheri7]

Maybe try hand feeding her some hay and pellets too. My girl wouldn't go out of her way to eat but if I held a few pieces of hay in front of her like I would a treat she was more apt to eat it. Mine also likes the taste of the baby gas drops (Simethicone) so I mix that in with the Critical Care and she eats more of it, however she will only eat a little at a time. So now I mix it up and stick the spoon or some on my finger in fornt of her nose and she will nibble at it a little. Then back off for a few minutes and give her some more.

Good luck to you, I am really pulling for you and Kelly.

 

[ysy]

hi,

I have bad news. To cut the long story short, Kelly is in a critical condition. I had left her at the vets today before work because she was bleeding from her behind and I was worried about a prolapse and won't be able to watch her. Well, good thing I did because she did. They managed to insert it back though, but she wouldn't stop pushing.

I also made arrangements for her to see a chin vet over at the hospital where she's being boarded (same hospital that saw her flu) and he called me back as an emergency. He breeds chinchillas as well and so is very familiar with chins. Kelly has *insert medical name that I can't remember* Basically, he took x-rays and it showed Kelly stomach as full of poo. There are no intestines in sight. It's just all poo. He says it's a very critical condition as the chin will die of poisoning by its own stools. Her immune system is also busted. Drugs are just going to kill her and a surgery at this point in time is out of the question. The only way out is to try some homeotherapies. He warned me to be prepared because right now it's touch and go.

Kelly is now on nothing but papaya juice and puree. The goal is to make her poop. Any food will only worsen the poo situation. I know it sounds outrageous but honestly I'm out of ideas. I'm trusting the vet with this. I'm downright dumbfounded when I saw the x-rays. And Kelly is still trying to push her guts out. I've decided to leave her at the hospital for a bit because they can care for her better than I can and I want to give her every fighting chance she has.

I'm just home to pick up some clean fleece for her (she had blood over her old ones) and her favourite hidey house so she'll feel more at home at the vets. Also, I'll spend as much time as possible with her because I want to give her a reason to keep fighting. Mommy hasn't abandoned her to some strange place with strange people trying to feed her funny stuff. Kelly is still perky though given her condition, which gives me hope because I know she is a fighter.

p.s. she bit me 3 times again... and it hurts.

 

[sheri7]

Praying for poop...

 

[ysy]

Hi everyone,

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their advice, support, and keeping Kelly in your thoughts. I'm glad to say that Kelly is feeling much much better. She's not 100% yet, but she's doing well and hopefully on the road to recovery

I didn't post earlier because it was very hard (emotionally and physically) for me as I didn't know which way it will go. But if anyone cares to read, I'll write a brief account of what happened.

The papaya did it for her. She was in hospital for 3 days where the techs fed her nothing but papaya puree every 2 hours. I was also there with her whenever I had free time to talk to her and help with the feedings. Within a day of taking the papaya, she stopped trying to push her guts out and her teeth grinding (I assume pain) reduced dramatically. She also started pooping a little (1 or 2 poops). I brought her home on Day 4 (which was also the weekend) with strict instructions to continue the papaya feed (okay to spread out to once every 4 hours) and to not let her eat anything else.

She was HARD to force feed, and required at least 4 hands to do so. 2 to pin her little paws down (inside the burrito - she has a knack of getting out of them), 1 to hold her head down (so she can't flick her head), and 1 to administer the syringe. Hubby (the pinner) had bite wounds (through the latex surgical gloves) and I had the scratches/bite marks (the burrito-er) to show for it.

The poops came. As she pooped more, she became hungrier and became easier to feed. By the end of 1 week, she was taking the papaya just off the syringe. It was also around this time that her poops became better and more consistent and the vet okayed her to be started on solid food, but warned us to take it easy as not all the crap is out of her yet. We started CC, pellets and hay in small amounts spread over 6 feedings a day and she ate them all without trouble. But Day 2 of starting her on solids brought on a relapse and she started her stretching motions, pressing belly down to floor again. Back to the vets we went, and we had to start everything from square one, pull all food and put her only on papaya puree. She also refused to take anything and we had to force-feed her all over again. This time, vet says that we'll do the papaya thing until everything is out before we start her on proper food.

It took another week of nothing but papaya to get everything out, after which I started her on CC slowly increasing the amounts of CC she gets a day and decreasing her papaya. Also started feeding her wheatgrass hay (vet advice is that it's easier on the stomach than timothy) in between CC feedings. She's currently still on CC - would take them off a spoon and I'm looking to wean her completely off the papaya by this week if everything is well.

I'm still scared as **** on starting her on pellets and timothy as I'm afraid it'll take her backwards, so I'm doing this really slowly. The surprising thing is that she did not lose any weight during the papaya feedings (Vet assured me that she won't and that the papaya will have all the nutrients that she'll need.) Vet also said that she has inherent gastro problems and I would need to build up her health slowly. He'll be happy for me to get her up to around 480g (she's around 430-440g now, was around 490g before the trouble)

I love my little fighter

 

[sheri7]

Yah! I'm so glad to hear she pulled through. I checked back here often and was getting worried when I hadn't seen any updates from you. I'm glad you posted and hope she continues on the road to recovery.