Does Quick growth + Very large size = Teeth issues?

[jags]

Recently I have had several people call and talk to me about seeing animals with very quick growth and becoming very large animals at a young age but then developing teeth issues at a young age also. What have others seen on this? Are some people pushing to many supplements causing tooth growth to be faster than they wear them down? Just the lines they are working with, thou it appears to be not of any one line they are coming from. Other opinions?

 

[Anne-Lise]

I've been told the same but most specifically about ebonies. However, I didn't understand it 'would' be due to anything environmental.

 

[AZChins]

It could be that the supplements that cause quick growth also cause problems with the jaw. I've had a theory that supplements high in grains have a lot to do with mineral loss from the jaw and can cause loose teeth or teeth that do not grow in correctly. Too much protein can cause problems for sure. The high protein supplements given to growing chins definitely could put the size on a chin in a hurry, but the cost of doing so could definitely cause issues in bone formation and with the teeth.

I'm not sure if it would have something to do with the teeth growing too fast because the teeth grow so fast anyway! Chins generally keep their teeth ground down even if they are chins that have faster growing teeth. But, who knows, maybe these supplements speed up the tooth growth so much that the chins can't possibly chew enough to keep them worn down. (That's a scary thought!)

This is a problem with chins that are just given the supplements, correct? Do they have any siblings of these chins that do not have the problems?

 

[ticklechin]

Its true, when excess levels of calcium, Vit D and A are given as part of supplements because people feel there is a nutritional deficiency, problems happen. Wild chinchillas has a sub-optimal diet, as a result of that their teeth are not maximally mineralised. High vitamin D and calcium intake has been shown to increase bone and tooth mineralization in chinchillas. This has resulted in chinchillas with teeth that more resistant to attrition, this and the advent of poorly abrasive diets that domestic chinchillas have result in coronal and apical elongation.

 

[saphire]

I don't have any specifics, but it is know in humains and animals that fast growth causes issues a far bone structures go. Therefore supplementing especially with oats (phosphoras) can bring issues. Due to the ratio rrequired of phosphor and calcium is jeopardized by the oat intake.

 

[Spoof]

I haven't seen anything like this but I don't provide supplements, just feed and hay with the occasional rose hip or herb or something. Having calf manna in the feed last year really screwed with my litters and I am worried about the babies that were conceived, born and weaned on it. Time will tell.

I also haven't had any reports of malocclusion. Lots of deaths from impaction (plastic) over the last four years, and one from feeding a diet of pure corn but no drooling or teeth problems.

You'd think I would hear of it more with pet diets but I don't.

It's worth noting that I do not have fast growing animals. My entire herd is interlaced with the slowest maturing ebony line ever (~3 years).

Would be curious to see if someone could pinpoint Oats or overfeeding of vitamins to be an issue.

 

[CTChin]

Are we talking about the common oat supplement that a lot of us give to our chins???? I give a little to my babies daily because I thought it was good for them. I was not trying to encourage quick growth.

They are still very young so tell me now..should I stop or only give a few times a week?

 

[jags]

I know of nothing for sure. I was just approached by a couple of people concerned with the issue they were having and am trying to see what info I can help them find to eliminate the problem they are having and I know they supplement and push for very large animals.

Myself I have scaled back from breeding over-ally large animals to get my production up.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I haven't heard supplements causing problems but I have heard the more brevi type animals are more likely to develop teeth issues.

 

[Claire D]

I know of nothing for sure. I was just approached by a couple of people concerned with the issue they were having and am trying to see what info I can help them find to eliminate the problem they are having and I know they supplement and push for very large animals.

I have known chins with rapid growth as kits develop tooth issues and need euthanising at a young age (17 months in one case). I do believe that rapid growth leads to issues and, although there is no proof at present, I think it is possibly similar to rapid growth in puppies (as an example).

This article on dogs is a good example of discussion around rapid growth and skeletal problems in puppies - just as discussions starters. I'm not using them as definitive for chinchillas. Food for thought perhaps, especially given the breeders Jags refers to supplement their chins for growth/size.

https://www.msu.edu/~silvar/hips.htm


If rapid growth affects dogs then it is entirely possible that it can affect other animals and perhaps the race to breed exceptionally large chinchillas is not always the healthiest option. It is anecdotally reported that big chins are lazy breeders (again, Jags' post supports this) which can cause issues with kit production but very few people talk about issues with young chins and malocclusion. That doesn't mean it's not happening - I just think breeders don't always associate rapid growth with tooth issues or (in the US) the chins are pelted before problems can be picked up or commented upon.

I do wonder how much damage is caused by excess supplementation - I think it is under-reported and not well understood.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Rapid growth is not good for any mammal and since the day I started talking to ranchers, I have always been told that you do not want a fast growing chinchilla. I had one kit that hit 680g at 5 months and by 10 months and 960g, he had developed teeth problems. He was growing normally until he hit about 4 months, after which he gained almost 200g in a one month period. Previous litters from the parents grew at normal rates and had no problems and this male even had two littermates that grew at normal rates and have no teeth issues at almost 3 years now. I also do not feed any kind of supplement, my chins get daily pellets and hay once a week. I've always been told by ranchers that if a chin grows too quickly before 6 months, don't breed it because it will have teeth issues.

I think we will see more instances for these rapid growing chins that develop teeth issues early on as people push harder for larger size at younger ages. It's not natural or healthy for young animals to be so large. Size can be attained through careful breeding of healthy, larger animals...but all too often I am seeing supplements pushed or high protein diets as an easy "fix" for smaller animals. I stay away from supplements and it hurts me on the show table at times, but I feel my animals are healthier and it's much easier to spot problems in my herd.

 

[Claire D]

I had one kit that hit 680g at 5 months and by 10 months and 960g, he had developed teeth problems. He was growing normally until he hit about 4 months, after which he gained almost 200g in a one month period. Previous litters from the parents grew at normal rates and had no problems and this male even had two littermates that grew at normal rates and have no teeth issues at almost 3 years now.

That's a similar story to the two instances I have known. Sudden rapid growth over a short period of time and the other kits/litters perfectly normal.
It's heartbreaking putting down what would be seen by anyone who didn't know the animal's condition as excellent show quality chinchillas on the bench.