Do you believe this

[Mt. Zion Chins]

I had someone from the Academy of Natural Science of Philadephia contact me about me selling them a couple of chins (same sex) for the Academy. They have 2 chins that are about 13 years old that they want to retire and go to one of the employees home. He explained the diet which included dried fruits and vegetables - I explained that particulary fruit (especially dried fruit) is very bad for chins and the vegetables aren't good either

this is the answer to my email back to him:

I can assure you that all of our chinchillas are handled and socialized on a daily basis and receive the most nutritious food - in fact our chins get more attention and quality care than a private home. My degree is in wildlife sciences with extensive training in anatomy, physiology, nutrition and parasitology. Also, our vet is an expert in exotic animal care (who works not only with our facility but other animal care facilities, is on the board of several nationally and internationally recognized exotic veterinary associations, is an AZA inspector, and is an instructor in exotic vet medicine). All our diets (including what treats we use) are cleared through our vet.

Our chins receive a controlled amount of high quality chinchilla extruded diet (pellets), fresh veggies, and unlimited Timothy or mixed-grass hay daily. We weigh our chins at minimum monthly, and they are given regular vet exams (our vet is scheduled to be in the building monthly). Obesity, overgrown molars or incisiors, skin/coat problems or other disorders have never been a problem in this facility (unless the animal came with those health issues.)

I must say I disagree that dried fruits are bad for chinchillas - this is mis-information. Yes - dried fruits are higher in sugar (fructose) than fresh fruits and should not be over-used in the diet; however, when employed judiciously for the purposes of positive reinforcement, dried fruits such as raisins are not only useful but not nutritionally "bad". Most lay people who have chins simply do not have the training in animal nutrition that we employ in our facility and therefore over use dried fruits. And many chin diets available in pet stores also contain ingredients that increase the protein or sugar and serve simply as "junk fillers." However, those experienced in animal care avoid using those diets.

I am sorry that you are uncomfortable with our facility as a home for your chinchillas and thank you for responding to my inquiries.

I told him that HE was wrong and to go on to chins-n-hedgies for correct information - He probably won't because he thinks he knows it all - The problem is that imagine all the people who visit 'the Academy' and get wrong information about feeding chins ?????

 

[tunes]

You are not going to be able to tell a "pet nutritionist" they are wrong, any more than you can tell a vet tech they are not a vet. It is what it is.

I guess it works for them, so they will stick with it until they happen to get a couple chins who bloat, get gut stasis, and die. I'm going to stick with what works for me, which is pellets, hay, and water.

Good for you for sticking to your guns though, in refusing to sell to them. Too bad the next person probably won't. Or, there's always the pet store.........

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

yea - he emailed me back and said 'you can't believe everything you read on the internet' and that even breeders that have been breeding for years are wrong

 

[feistychins]

What I also find disturbing is that he says dried fruit is used for 'positive reinforcement'. They are trying to train these chins or (I hate to say it) being used for experiments.

I know there can be a lot of various opinions on the internet when it comes to chin care and I feel we are always learning more about these animals all the time, but I have found that the ego of some doctors and educational facilities put the best interest of chinchillas on the back burner. They can be very closed minded to even consider other options and are demeaning to anyone who does not find their opinions to be the ultimate answer.

 

[arf2184]

He's probably just going off what they've experienced. The chins did ok with it so they'll continue. If they are used to the dried fruit, chances are they'll be ok with it. I'm not saying I advise it as I saw a considerable difference when we stopped the raisins here years and years ago, but a chin that has had dried fruits and veggies their whole life will likely not bloat from it as they're used to it. I doubt they've tried not feeding the sugar or he might think differently.

 

[Diva Chins]

yea - he emailed me back and said 'you can't believe everything you read on the internet' and that even breeders that have been breeding for years are wrong

You can't believe everything you read on the internet, but you can believe breeders and ranchers that have had 40+ years of experience in chins and I read on a thread some where that rancher's chins have been known to live longer than pet chins. I wonder who's right?
I've actually argued with someone about a chinchilla who is a math major at Virginia Tech college. They said the roll around plastic balls are good for chins, I disagreed, they said "Well I'm the one with a degree, what do you have?" I said "A forum with tons of information and healthy chins? You killed your female's baby by trying to force feed it water instead of taking it to a vet, have any of my chins died?" Someone who thinks they know it all will continue to think they know it all until something happens when they need help. Then they're going to realize "Oh...Well, I thought I was right..."
I do applaud you for not selling to them but I'm sure someone else, who doesn't care about the welfare or well being of their chins will, or they always have the pet stores as has been said. At one point, I thought I knew it all, but I got knocked off my high horse when I realized I didn't and I needed help. I'm sure their day of realization is near.

 

[staceylwolf]

I may get blasted for this but oh well I'll say it, lol . Their chins are 13 years old, how bad can the way they are caring for them be?? I thought his response was very professional. Everyone has different beliefs on how to take care of chins, heck there are different beliefs on how to care for any animal. Their method of caring for them works, as does the method of the people on this forum. I don't believe that makes any of us wrong. I think it just shows the animals systems can adjust to different diets and such without problems.

 

[Chin_r_great]

Even it works for now when there older and there bodies get weaker they may find themselves with as tunes and many people on this forum have stated problems. I think information like this on the forum is more than any book you would find in library. These people handling chinchillas right not, heck maybe holding one there hands as they type their info is from experience and we should all take it in and your costumer should understand this also. That guy is totally wrong and should face the consequences for it doesn't happen in a week it may happen in year from now. Then they will be bawling there eyes out. You warned them and that it is all you could do. In a perfect world you would be right. Your the man/woman!:thumbsup:

 

[staceylwolf]

these chins in questions are already 13 years old and have survived this long being taken care of that way. How much older will they get before these "problems" arise? They are already old chins.

 

[Chin_r_great]

Anytime or for some reason it is working for them, which is great for the chins.

 

[staceylwolf]

exactly, it is working for these chins, which means this diet could work for others. I'm not saying I agree with it but everyone has different opinions on what is right and what works. I don't think they should be classified as "being totally wrong" in the way they care for thier chins. Yes, it may be a bit different than what the majority of the people on this forum feel is right but that doesn't make them wrong.

 

[Diva Chins]

My personal feelings:
Just because it's working now doesn't mean it's right. For non-breeding chins who are being used for experiments, yeah it might not have any health issues that show up now, but if breeders practiced this particular theory they might have some issues with offspring. Pellets, hay, and water has been proven to work, and that's what I'm going to stick to until I proof that these chins are not suffering physically from this diet (Which he did not show any proof, just assured). I could assure some one up and down that it was day when it's night and that doesn't make it true.
I'm sure that this has been tried before, but with pellets being so cheap, why put so much money into fresh greens? They can be quite pricey these days and if you buy grocery store, you don't know whether or not it was sprayed with pesticides. So I'm going to stick to my pellets, hay, and water. I'd rather not risk my chin's long term health.
(I don't think the mentioned either how long they'd been in possession of these chins or trying this 'diet' either, they could have only had them for a year.)

 

[DaphnesandFreddysmom]

well I think they should be more open toother breeders/owners opinions on diets. If they've had these chinchillas their whole life than more than likely care and feeding information has changed a few times since they first acquired these chinchillas. If they haven't taken the time to do the research on proper care at all through the life of their chinchillas maybe they should. They need to remain updated on proper care not just research once and than say "ok, we're good".

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

They had those chins since they were babies Maybe those chins 'lucked out' and could take that diet but what happens with 2 new chins that they want This place for the chins is like a Zoo and they give information about chins to the public - wrong information I really don't have a problem with giving a piece of green every once in a while but fruit is REALLY asking for problems (especially dried fruit)

 

[Diva Chins]

They had those chins since they were babies Maybe those chins 'lucked out' and could take that diet but what happens with 2 new chins that they want This place for the chins is like a Zoo and they give information about chins to the public - wrong information I really don't have a problem with giving a piece of green every once in a while but fruit is REALLY asking for problems (especially dried fruit)

Agreed. I don't really see how a chin who was born and raised (thus far) on pellets would find the switch to fresh greens easy...

 

[minrex]

Even it works for now when there older and there bodies get weaker they may find themselves with as tunes and many people on this forum have stated problems. I think information like this on the forum is more than any book you would find in library. These people handling chinchillas right not, heck maybe holding one there hands as they type their info is from experience and we should all take it in and your costumer should understand this also. That guy is totally wrong and should face the consequences for it doesn't happen in a week it may happen in year from now. Then they will be bawling there eyes out. You warned them and that it is all you could do. In a perfect world you would be right. Your the man/woman!:thumbsup:

You've never been around a research scientist before, have you?

I think the guy was very professional in his answer, and I can easily see his point of view on the issue. Of course I don't feed fresh vegetables, but I don't think the fact that they do makes them horrible chin owners. These are people who have likely spent years studying the digestive systems and nutrient requirements of hindgut fermenters, and while chins have some different needs than, say, rabbits, these aren't people who just went to the local library and picked up My First Chinchilla to get their information. Telling someone like this that they're wrong and citing an internet forum as the source of one's information is not going to be looked upon highly by that person. Sorry, but that's how it is. If you could point him to some sort of research study or publication that illustrates why feeding fresh vegetables and dried fruit is wrong (even if it is something published by a rancher and not necessarily a peer-reviewed article in a scientific journal), you'd probably get a better reception. I don't think this guy was rude in any way though.

 

[3CsMommy]

Telling someone like this that they're wrong and citing an internet forum as the source of one's information is not going to be looked upon highly by that person. [...] If you could point him to some sort of research study or publication that illustrates why feeding fresh vegetables and dried fruit is wrong (even if it is something published by a rancher and not necessarily a peer-reviewed article in a scientific journal), you'd probably get a better reception.

Exactly. I've learned the hard way not to tell a doctor-- of any kind-- that something he or she is sure of is wrong without print matter to back it up. The Internet is still shunned as a valid source by academia in general, and people who have been taught that they're "an authority" while lay people aren't as knowledgeable as they are often need it in black and white before they'll believe they've been mistaken. (Which is a common but irritating attitude when you're talking about someone's blood pressure medication at 4:45 PM on a Friday.) He could have a journal from Mathias Chapman (the guy who domesticated chinchillas in the 1900s) saying "I don't see that fruits are necessary in the chinchilla diet" and still claim his knowledge is better. It's the way colleges seem to teach people to think. :huh:

 

[staceylwolf]

Excellent post Minrex!!

 

[Ash]

I may get blasted for this but oh well I'll say it, lol . Their chins are 13 years old, how bad can the way they are caring for them be?? I thought his response was very professional. Everyone has different beliefs on how to take care of chins, heck there are different beliefs on how to care for any animal. Their method of caring for them works, as does the method of the people on this forum. I don't believe that makes any of us wrong. I think it just shows the animals systems can adjust to different diets and such without problems.

And there's people who eat McDonald's and other junk daily that manage to be perfectly healthy, and dogs that have fine lives on Pedigree/Purina/(insert junk food here). Does it make it good and healthy? No, it just means that there's an animal who passed the odds.

 

[equus_peduus]

Devil's advocate: Just because pellets/hay/water only work, does that mean that's right? ;-)

I happen to be of the "if done carefully, fresh and dried fruits and veggies are not a bad thing" camp. However, I don't think most people do it carefully, and I don't trust myself to do it right. However, if an animal has been acclimated to this diet, and is doing well with it, I believe there is no reason to change it.

Also... yes, pellets/hay/water or even just pellets/water works well for ranchers - who have hundreds or thousands of animals to care for every day. When you are working in a zoo or museum type setting, an individual keeper has the time to devote to individual animals, and probably they are putting together several animals' diets at the same time. There is no reason why this is not a viable possibility for this facility.