Claiming Process

[Linda]

I was just reading the Mansfield post and wanted to better understand the claiming process. For instance, at what point in the show can animals be claimed. Who can claim them and how are prices set. How is claiming money split assuming that at least both the owner and the show-sponsoring organization each get a portion of it.

Linda

 

[tunes]

They can be claimed at any time from the time they get there until the show is over. If they are entered in the show, and the show has started, you can't take them until after they are shown though. Anybody can claim any chin and the price is set by you, with a high set by the chapter. Mansfield has a $200.00 ceiling on their claim price. The club takes a percentage off the top. I can't remember what Mansfield's is, but I "think" 5%? Then the rest of the money is yours.

 

[Linda]

I hope to go to a show in California sometime in the future, but let me explain some of what I'm envisioning given what I've ready in your response and elsewhere. People don't bring their own show cages. They're supplied as part of the entry fee. So you bring your animals in various containers, check them in (are health checks part of check in?), and then all animals are placed in a general area probably by color since that seems to be how they're judged. For people to claim them, the chins have to be accessible to the public, so I'm envisioning an area where people can walk around and examine the chins in their show pens.

Are the owner's names identified as well as birthdate and other pertinent info like pedigrees on chins? (Judging must be anonymous, so this would have to be out of the judging area, and does that mean a judge can't check out the animals available for claiming?) Must all chins be up for claiming? (It appears the chins winning the big awards at the Mansfield show were all up for claiming.) Can any owner put his chin in the claiming process? Is the claiming process included in the entry fee? Is it possible to handle a chin you are interested in and talk to the owner before deciding whether or not to claim it?

From what you've said, once the show starts, any entered in the show can't be claimed until it's over. It's also implied that some chins in the claiming process aren't entered in the show. Are they on some kind of sales table? Are they also placed in show pens or do they stay in the owner's cages? Is this the sole method for selling or buying a chin at a claiming show?

If the chin places well, can the owner remove it from the claiming process if it hasn't yet been claimed? (I assume the owner can't remove it once it has been claimed regardless of how it placed.)

Approximately what percentage (50/50, 75/25, etc.) of chins at a claiming show are available for claiming? I'm just looking for a ballpark.

I find the process for claiming chins interesting. Sorry if this seems like a lot of questions. I've attended various rodent shows but never attended a claiming show for any of those rodents.
Linda

 

[threewingedfury]

Show cages are always available at the shows - you do not bring your own. This is with any show, not just claiming shows. There are no health checks at shows - it's always assumed that the chins are in healthy condition on arrival. Who would want to bring a sick chin to a show? Chins are given a number based on when they arrive at the show and then the chins are placed in the show cages with their information on them (ranch brand and identification number, birthdate, color section, color phase and class). The judge can not see any information but can ask for the birth date and the animals are already split up by section, phase and class. The audience is normally given a sheet with cage numbers that tell you whom each chin belongs to. You'll have to speak to the breeder/shower for any of the other information pertaining to pedigrees/lineage.

There are two different claiming shows - mandatory and optional. The Mansfield show was a mandatory claim show - so any animal that is entered into the show can be claimed for up to the $200 limit. At optional claiming shows you do not have to put your chin up for sale. You must pay your entry fees separate - when you first come in with your animals, you pay your entry fees. As for holding the chins - you shouldn't hold them until the show is over with unless you catch the owner before the show starts.

 

[tunes]

From what you've said, once the show starts, any entered in the show can't be claimed until it's over. It's also implied that some chins in the claiming process aren't entered in the show. Are they on some kind of sales table? Are they also placed in show pens or do they stay in the owner's cages? Is this the sole method for selling or buying a chin at a claiming show?

You can claim them, you can't TAKE them. Claim means you commit to buying the chin, but you cannot physically remove it from the room until the show is over. Once the show starts, nobody goes behind the show table. You are not supposed to sell animals in the show hall unless they are part of the show, so that the proceeds go to the club that is putting the show on. People do make arrangements for sales and pick up in their hotel rooms and so on, but that's not part of the actual show or claiming process.

If the chin places well, can the owner remove it from the claiming process if it hasn't yet been claimed? (I assume the owner can't remove it once it has been claimed regardless of how it placed.)

If it's a mandatory claim, no. They cannot remove it. If the show is over, however, and nobody claims it, then sure, everybody takes their animals home. If it's not mandatory, then people just don't put the animal up for claim and decide whether they want to sell it or not depending on how it does at the show.

 

[Linda]

There are no health checks at shows - it's always assumed that the chins are in healthy condition on arrival. Who would want to bring a sick chin to a show?

So chins must not get the external parasites common in other rodents -- things like mites, lice, etc. And I think this is saying there really aren't contagious diseases like respiratory diseases in chinchillas that could get passed around at a show. I can't even imagine how some of these larger ranches would deal with something like this if they got it at a show.

There are two different claiming shows - mandatory and optional. The Mansfield show was a mandatory claim show - so any animal that is entered into the show can be claimed for up to the $200 limit.

Do you see any difference in the quality of the top animals between the mandatory and optional shows? Or any significant difference in number of animals entered? I would wonder if top animals were brought to a mandatory claiming show if the limit is $200. I see chins listed in the classifieds for well over $200 and thus wouldn't expect to see them at mandatory claiming shows. Is a $200 limit typical? What is the lowest price you see at claiming shows?

And can anyone sell a chin at a claiming show if they didn't enter it in the show? For instance can judges sell their animals there since I assume they can't enter a show if they're judging? And are rescues available at such shows even if they wouldn't typically be entered?
Linda

 

[tunes]

Do you see any difference in the quality of the top animals between the mandatory and optional shows? Or any significant difference in number of animals entered? I would wonder if top animals were brought to a mandatory claiming show if the limit is $200. I see chins listed in the classifieds for well over $200 and thus wouldn't expect to see them at mandatory claiming shows. Is a $200 limit typical? What is the lowest price you see at claiming shows?

Definitely. An example would be Ralph Shoots. He's not going to bring a top Nationals winning animal to a claim show where he can only put a price tag of $200.00 on it. Not when he could get $650.00 for that animal elsewhere. The animals he brings are still really nice, or he wouldn't consistently get the top spots, but he knows which ones to bring and which ones to leave behind.

The lowest price is whatever the person puts it at. I doubt you'll find it goes less than $50 or $75.00. What would be the point after you pay the club fees?

 

[RDZCRanch]

So chins must not get the external parasites common in other rodents -- things like mites, lice, etc. And I think this is saying there really aren't contagious diseases like respiratory diseases in chinchillas that could get passed around at a show. I can't even imagine how some of these larger ranches would deal with something like this if they got it at a show.

Chins usually do not have external parasites...other than fungus which is easily seen, there is a very very very small uncommon amount of external parasites that can exist in the density of their fur. Also, no one would bring an animal like that because it would immediately get set off the table for a fur fault. Same thing with a respiratory infection. The chins eyes would water which the judge would assume is from malo and the chin would be set off the table. All of this makes the breeder look bad so we are extremely selective and careful about what we bring to shows.

Do you see any difference in the quality of the top animals between the mandatory and optional shows? Or any significant difference in number of animals entered? I would wonder if top animals were brought to a mandatory claiming show if the limit is $200. I see chins listed in the classifieds for well over $200 and thus wouldn't expect to see them at mandatory claiming shows. Is a $200 limit typical? What is the lowest price you see at claiming shows?

Some places you will see a difference in the quality but usually there isn't too large a gap in quality. Again, it goes back to the breeder looking bad. They may not bring a full string of show animals (20) and instead bring maybe only 12 of their nice animals. Most big breeders that take top awards won't breed anything less than top quality to begin with so whatever they show will be quality.

And can anyone sell a chin at a claiming show if they didn't enter it in the show? For instance can judges sell their animals there since I assume they can't enter a show if they're judging? And are rescues available at such shows even if they wouldn't typically be entered?
Linda

A chin must be entered in the show to be up for claim. If the chin was not entered...it's not supposed to be sold at the show. Some branches will set aside a couple of tables for the judges to sell animals. I know California has done it a couple of times as a courtesy and thank you to the judges. And of course their animals can't be entered into the show for obvious reasons. Rescues are not usually found at shows because they have no place on the show table. Rescues are pets and most pets don't match up to the chins brought onto the table.

 

[addictedtochins]

Good thread, thanks Linda

 

[tunes]

Some places you will see a difference in the quality but usually there isn't too large a gap in quality. Again, it goes back to the breeder looking bad. They may not bring a full string of show animals (20) and instead bring maybe only 12 of their nice animals. Most big breeders that take top awards won't breed anything less than top quality to begin with so whatever they show will be quality.

Not necessarily. An experienced rancher knows what might place well at a claiming show would not place well at a higher level (Nationals), but will still place decently when up against others there. So you can still get a "decent" animal, even though it may not be the best of the best, for a good price. They would be silly to bring an animal they can get mega bucks for to a show with a $200.00 ceiling. The same with silent auctions. You're not going to find the GSC at Nationals sitting on the silent auction table. There were some very nice chins on the auction table at Nationals last year, and I got a beautiful male there for a really good price, but it was only because the breeder had an excess of standard males that he was there at all.

At least that's been my experience on the eastern part of the country. I've not attended a claiming show in your neck of the woods.

 

[TBFchins]

I know for a fact you can oic up top quality animals at a claiming show for ggod prices.
i purchased the RGSC black female at a show a few years back and she can hold her own quality wise to many blacks. I also have been at shows where 1st place regestered ECBC nat'ls chins have been purchased for $200 or less.
So don't know how many nat'ls first place animals have been purchased at that price but i know it happens at claiming shows in this neck of the woods quite often.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Not necessarily. An experienced rancher knows what might place well at a claiming show would not place well at a higher level (Nationals), but will still place decently when up against others there. So you can still get a "decent" animal, even though it may not be the best of the best, for a good price. They would be silly to bring an animal they can get mega bucks for to a show with a $200.00 ceiling. The same with silent auctions. You're not going to find the GSC at Nationals sitting on the silent auction table. There were some very nice chins on the auction table at Nationals last year, and I got a beautiful male there for a really good price, but it was only because the breeder had an excess of standard males that he was there at all.

At least that's been my experience on the eastern part of the country. I've not attended a claiming show in your neck of the woods.

Yes, some won't bring the best of the best to claiming shows or they'll just bring animals that qualify as decent. On the West coast, however, we have Bowen chinchillas which at any given time have around 3000 breeding animals if not more. They almost always have an overabundance of nice animals which they bring to claiming shows. They also know they won't be around forever so they try to help the little guy get started with good, quality animals. I took home a class champion pink white male last year for $200 without there even being a ceiling price.

You should come out here, Pegs...we'll cut you a deal! LOL:neener:

 

[tunes]

I know for a fact you can oic up top quality animals at a claiming show for ggod prices.
i purchased the RGSC black female at a show a few years back and she can hold her own quality wise to many blacks. I also have been at shows where 1st place regestered ECBC nat'ls chins have been purchased for $200 or less.
So don't know how many nat'ls first place animals have been purchased at that price but i know it happens at claiming shows in this neck of the woods quite often.

You were buying chins at claiming shows when you were 12? Have you won junior breeder awards too? I'm assuming you have, since you seem pretty well versed on chin/show issues.

Tabitha - I'd love to come out and get some chins from Bowens. I need to plan it out so I can get dust and chins at the same time.

 

[TBFchins]

For a little more info about my experience with chins. Since due to my age you think I can not be very knowledgable about chins and shows, I got my first pet chinchilla when I was seven. I registered as a 4h ECBC member with my own herd when I was about 10 years old. I select my own breeding stock, and had my first baby born in 2006, when I would've been 11 years old. I enjoy caring for my chinchillas and learning all that I can about genetics. It is something that hightly interests me. I have attended the Colorado West Slope claiming show since 2004 and have been actively participating as a audience member/judge since then. I have worked at the show with many experienced sanctioned judges and ranchers, for example Bradfords, PSK, Bob and Vicki Merritt and Roger Clark. I love hearing what they have to say and learning how to determine quality in chinchillas. Next week at the ECBC National Meeting, I have been asked to talk about some of my experiences being a youth ECBC member. So for those who will be attending, I can't wait to see you there!