Chinchilla Arbitrage

[heyjudes]

So in financial markets when an imbalance of information presents itself it's said that an arbitrage situation exists.

I dropped by a PetSmart the other day to pick up some cat food. Of course there was a chinchilla there by itself in a cage *weeps*. My natural instinct was to rescue it and bring it home (also why I can't visit petstores anymore). But when I looked closer I realized the chin they had in the store was a beautiful violet being sold as a standard. So chinchilla arbitrage situation.

Anyways, forgive my babbling. A huge part of me still wants to rescue that little chinnie. Trying to distract myself from it.

 

[I<3MyChinnies]

There was a black velvet labeled as a standard at our local petsmart this weekend (and no, it wasn't a dark standard...it was definitely a black velvet). They also had a standard that the woman working in that section admitted was simply thrown into the cage with it earlier that week. The standard was skittish and seemed to have slipped fur in numerous parts of it's hind region, but fortunately seemed fine otherwise and the two chins more or less ignored each other. My husband held the black velvet for like 10 minutes and we expressed some concern over their lack of knowledge and the way they had housed the two like that without even recognizing the potential danger of just throwing two chins with no history in a cage together. My husband fell in love with the little guy he was holding and I think was on the verge of wanting to bring him home...he just didn't want to spring for another chin AND another FN...not yet anyway :wink:

I've seen some cute chinnies at PetSmart, but you're right, people working there really seem to have no idea how to care for them. The lady working there admitted to me that the standard wouldn't come out of the dust house and she said it stayed there so long that it's fur got matted and they had to take it to the grooming section (which could be the actual cause of the fur slip I suppose). I was like, well, was there dust in the dust house or just a little dust and a bunch of pee? I also told her that they definitely did NOT need the dust house in there all the time. I really am not usually one to want to tell people how to do their job or take care of their pets, but she practically was asking me and my husband for information because she, I think through us talking a little, realized she really doesn't know what she is doing when it comes to chinchillas. She even thanked us before we left.

...still thinking about that black velvet...

 

[schweppes]

PetSmart seems to take great care of the pets they get, at least the one near me does, it's just not guaranteed to go to a good owner. There's another pet store near me selling a white with black chinchilla, it looks so sad, its ears are down and it's all by its lonesome. The pet store its at has sold a friend a dog which was malnutritioned and almost sold them a dog which was sick and didn't even get along with people well. All their fish are constantly sick and I just worry for every animal that passes through there.

I don't have the money to get another chinchilla or the cage space or else I'd be in the same situation. If you have the money and space to rescue this chinchilla from a possible bad owner then go for it, especially since you'd be getting a violet for a cheaper price.

I'm not very good at distracting from buying.

 

[heyjudes]

The main problem with buying the chin is that by buying the chin I might actually be encouraging PetSmart to continue ordering chinchillas because of demand.

 

[I<3MyChinnies]

The main problem with buying the chin is that by buying the chin I might actually be encouraging PetSmart to continue ordering chinchillas because of demand.

Speaking of that, I don't suppose anyone has a clue as to where PetSmart and/or Petco get their chinchillas from (or any of their small animals for that matter)? I'm especially curious because of all the mutations I've been seeing/hearing about...it's not like they just carry a bunch of standards. I've always been under the impression that those larger chains don't simply accept animals from people who had pets that bred so there must be some larger source(?). Do those chains own their own animals that they breed and ship out to their stores? I really know nothing about this.

 

[JennyBug]

I spoke to the Petsmart near us regarding the high prices of their chins (and other animals for that fact), and they did tell me that the corporation will only let them buy from certain breeders. The bad part about this is if someone buys a chin, then a year later buys a chin of the opposite sex, they might have a brother and sister from different litters.

I don't think pet store chains will ever stop selling chins because they are still a novelty. While it seems to be an advantage to buy from a breeder that's accepted by such a large chain, the way the chins are kept aren't optimal (glass cages with no ventilation, improper food, wire wheels, plastic igloos, etc.). Petsmart does take better care of their exotics than many other stores, but their staff just isn't trained to care for them. One store had an almost full grown female veiled chameleon (about a foot long, tail uncurled) in a case the size of a shoebox, maybe smaller. Any person who knows about chams knows that they have to have ventilation or they die, and they are arboreal (don't like the ground). If big pet stores trained employees on exotics, they might not be bad places to buy animals like chins from.

On the whole, we don't buy animals (other than fish) from pet stores. We either rescue or buy from breeders. To me it's not worth the risk of paying top dollar for an animal of dubious health. Also, many pet stores, including Petsmart, hold adoption weekends for dogs and cats which, while very admirable, may introduce a host of problems and diseases into the store. People bring their pets in there are the time, and you just can't be sure that everyone is responsible enough to ensure that their animal won't bring an illness in with it.

(I still don't think I would have been able to resist that black velvet...)

 

[Sheri]

As to where they buy there chins. There are "breeders" out there that I don't think are so much "breeders" as "brokers". They travel buying up herds and then sellig them to others(breeders, pet stores, pet homes, ect.). Some of them take in rescues to either breed or sell.

It doesn't matter what industry you are in those people will be there. In the cattle industry they actually call themselves brokers. They buy them up, put them on feedlots, sell them later. In the chin industry they tend to call themselves breeders and ranchers.

 

[TillyChinchilla]

As to where they buy there chins. There are "breeders" out there that I don't think are so much "breeders" as "brokers". They travel buying up herds and then sellig them to others(breeders, pet stores, pet homes, ect.). Some of them take in rescues to either breed or sell

I don't believe this is correct. Many ranchers out there, and ones that are WELL known, and produce nice show quality animals, are wholesalers, too. It is a large part of their income with chins. They have an outlet for their standard males - and they can be shipped out around 8 weeks old, and I am guessing from what I've heard they sell the babies for about $20 each.

One must be USDA licensed to sell for resale to a pet store. That isn't something that just any backyard breeder is going to do. It is expensive and time consuming to be licensed.

There is usually a middle man too. Wholesale breeders will sell to distributors, where Petco, Petsmart, and other stores will place an order with (I need x amount of syrian hamsters, x amount of guinea pigs, x amount of chinchillas) and they will deliver to the store.

Same goes with restaurants. The one Ricky manages goes through a produce distributor 4 hours away, who buys their strawberries, lettuce, potatoes, etc from individual farms. The restaurant places their order with the distributor 6 days a week - and it is delivered to the restaurant. Very similar to how it works with pet stores.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

I went into Petsmart the other day and I told them the chin did not have any hay and they were to be provided access to hay 24/7 and when I came back a week or so later the chin had hay. I was pleased. They have also taken out the plastic igloo and cut out the fresh carrots I had seen in there. I think someone complained or something because they didn't have chins for a while and then they reappeared with the changes.

 

[PaperMoon]

I went into Petsmart the other day and I told them the chin did not have any hay and they were to be provided access to hay 24/7 and when I came back a week or so later the chin had hay. I was pleased. They have also taken out the plastic igloo and cut out the fresh carrots I had seen in there. I think someone complained or something because they didn't have chins for a while and then they reappeared with the changes.

I did that too with the local petsmart...i saw there was carrots in there, no hay, no water!! all it had was pellets ='[ :banghead: i called over a rep and complained....they kind of shrugged it off saying that he'll go get him food and walked away.....turns out he didn't even bother...i asked another rep and he was kind in enough to apologize and take care of the chinnies....they looked so sad in the glass enclosure...i so would've rescued it, but i didn't want them to be encouraged to restock more =/

poor chinnie :cry3:

 

[carltonchins]

I've gotten a lot of flack from the other thread, but let me say this. My wife is the manager of a PetSmart here in Oregon. No one cares for animals more than my wife, and when it comes to chinchillas she is on top of things....

That said, you have to understand, like any corp, they hire pimple faced teenagers to work days, they don't give a crap about the animals.

.....The best two chins I have came from Petsmart. Look at the photos if you like. Bartlebe, and Loke are the best chins in the world.....Healthy babies no mortalities, big, active, ect. Who knows, maybe I won the lottery with them getting them from a petsmart. All I can say for sure is the petsmarts up here know their stuff.

That is all...

 

[Raela]

All I can say for sure is the petsmarts up here know their stuff.

It's nice to see that Oregon know its stuff, because across the river here in Washington they sure don't. Every Pet"stupid" over here in SW WA I've been in has had chinchillas in the glass cages with their plastic igloos, dirty water, and barely any food (which was the kaytee fiesta with all the crap in it). Oh and they have these little placards that give you "information" and everyone of them has said that chinchillas are diurnal (daytime active). Get your wife to come over here and manage Vancouver's darn stores.

 

[carltonchins]

LOL. they actually just split the district, so Oregon stores are not part of the washington district. And I agree with you, I have seen some obvious mistakes when it comes to chinchilla care. It's like asking a whale to drill for oil......The people they hire dont care, and don't want to learn to care...it is sad, and I hear about it all the time from my wife.

 

[andymilo]

in toronto the big chain of petstores is called "PJ's pets store"...I went before I knew much about chins but I noticed that they were well taken care of....they were in a huge multi-level cage....looked similar to martin's cages....they were in a special room with glass walls so that people could see them but not bother them...the only thing i don't remember is seeing any way...but there may have been as this was over a year ago I don't remember exact details....but from what i can remember it looks as though they were properly cared for...when i return in June to Canada i hope to go back there and look around with a little more knowledge under my belt

 

[tunes]

As to where they buy there chins. There are "breeders" out there that I don't think are so much "breeders" as "brokers". They travel buying up herds and then sellig them to others(breeders, pet stores, pet homes, ect.). Some of them take in rescues to either breed or sell.

I know I've explained this in other threads, but I'll explain it here again. Brokers do not buy up herds. They travel from herd to herd and buy up "extras." Large ranchers, small ranchers, hobbyists, lots of people sell to brokers when they have animals they can't sell, or even just because it's easier than dealing with the pet market.

The broker comes and takes whatever chins you have to offer. He gives you a check. He then takes them back to his holding area, where he separates and ships them off according to the contracts he holds. Maybe PetSmart requires 200 this month, Petco 100, whatever. He fills the contracts.

They don't buy up "herds" of animals because pet stores don't want adults. They want babies or younger (or even smaller) animals, so people THINK they are babies. It doesn't have anything to do with taking in rescues to breed or sell. I don't know where you got your information from, but it's wrong.

I'm also going to say, again that it has nothing to do with the health of the chins being sold to the broker. When the broker goes to the breeder, they hand over whatever they can't use/can't sell. Your pet store chin could be the next MCBA/ECBC Nationals Champion. There is absolutely no way of knowing. They don't go down the line and say - oh, here's a sickly, maloccluding, fur chewing, heart murmur chin - let's send THIS one to the pet store. It doesn't work that way. Lots of the times they pull 6-8 week old babies from mom and send them off. Some ranchers even have contracts directly with pet stores or brokers to supply X amount of chins per month. They have to meet that contract, so they end up sending animals they really may not have even wanted to.

 

[Chinniechantel]

Wow, I have never seen a chin in a pet store in a good condition. I have actually seen one seizing and dying in front of the whole store- kids crying and all. The manager would not do anything, it was terrible. I ended up calling animal control and scaring him enough to bring her (a gorgeous black velvet girl, about a year old too) to the vet. I even followed him because I had a bad feeling he would just dump her somewhere. She ended up dying, it was severe malo or pnemonia I guessed. So terrible. I threw such a fit they gave me $100 gift certificate, which I donated to a rescue around here. Poor chins, they always are in aquariums here, in Florida, or outside! It just makes me so angry, my husband does not allow me to go to any pet stores anymore. He goes alone to get crickets for the hedgehogs and yesterday's news, but that is it. And I have to stay home...lol. I am glad to hear some stores are better, but I do think that is the exception rather than the rule.

 

[LovableFuzziezandCrawliez]

I agree with Tunes. I work at a Petsmart here in Calgary and some of the chinchillas that we have had in are amazing!! They are beautiful little creatures and I can't believe they are "pet quality" (obviously not for breeding anyways even if they look nice) - but still - I am always amazed how high quality their coats are (veiling, density, all that fun stuff) compared to other pet stores in town that just buy from whoever walks in off the street with a chinchilla they want to get rid of.

 

[carltonchins]

I dont know if this is the best place to ask, but I don't know for sure. How DO you tell if one of your chins has a heart murmor? How do you check?

 

[I<3MyChinnies]

Thanks for all the good info Tunes! I was always curious about how it worked. I got a guinea pig as a kid (from a family friend with pet piggies) that happened to be pregnant (probably by her father, unfortunately - they thought she was a male). My mom wouldn't let me keep them and we asked one of the large chains if they would take the babies and they wouldn't so I knew that they didn't accept animals from just anyone, but never knew the details as you explained them. We ended up finding a really well run mom and pop store that took the babies in exchange for some supplies - not the choice I would have made, but I was only 12 or so and had to listen to mom.

 

[tunes]

I dont know if this is the best place to ask, but I don't know for sure. How DO you tell if one of your chins has a heart murmor? How do you check?

You would have to have a vet check and let you know. Sometimes they can tell just by listening, although it's hard because a rodent's heartbeat is incredibly fast. It's better to check by using ultrasound.