Babies losing weight

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Anne-Lise

Anne-Lise

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
401
Location
Québec
I'm getting worried about 2 kits I have here. They were born on December 11th, so they'll be 9 weeks old in a couple days. They are from a first time mom, the first week was difficult but then they gained weight pretty fast. Up to the end of January.

BB1 BB2
166g 234g Jan. 30th
144g 204g Feb 2nd morning
150g 218g Feb 2nd evening
136g 214g Feb 3rd

They're still full of energy, eating lots of hay. I just don't understand, nothing's changed and I can't see any problem.

What do you think? Any idea what could be wrong?
 
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are they still with mom, or have they started being weaned already? Also have you noticed similar weight changes in any others? Every once in a while the batteries in my scale will start to lose their charge and when that happens I start getting all kinds of wacky weights.
 
They're still with mom yes. I will not ween them until that weight problem is settled. I have another litter at the moment (from that female's mother actually, and she's an amazing mom) and the kits' weights are going up steadily, so the scale is fine. I will change the batteries just in case though.

I don't know if it can influence the kits, but I think the mom is getting tired of the babies. As soon as I open the door to feed them, she'll just push everything out of the way to get out of the cage. She was never too fond of jumping on me but now she'll do it in an instant just so she can get out. When I wanna close the door she pushes it as hard as she can and tries to squeeze her nose out. She's never done that before, she really wants to run away from them.
 
If mom is stressed she is probably no longer allowing them to nurse and she could be keeping them from eating pellets/hay as well. They are 9 weeks old so old enough to be weaned and should be eating enough pellets and hay to sustain themselves. I would wean them and monitor their weights from there.
 
Have you checked mom/mom's nipples? Sometimes when the kits are a bit bigger they can be a bit less than gentle on mom's teats. They can inflict serious damage up to and including lacerations that result in infection. I'd check that first but it really does sound like it could be a "mom not allowing them to eat" scenario. I'm not sure I would wean them unless she's actively being mean to them BUT I would put in a separate feed bowl so the babies can eat on their own. Monitor a few more days and if their poops seem normal, they aren't lethargic or showing other signs of illness but ARE still losing weight it might be time to wean them. That said, the one is extremely small to wean. So you'll want to read up on safety measures that you may need to take should you wean a kit that small. I know they're old enough to wean, but they are a bit small for my liking. My kits are usually well over 200g around 6wk and I just weaned a 7.5wk old that was 376g at weaning. Best of luck.
 
30gs is a ton of weight to lose for kit #1 in five days and sounds almost impossible in 3 days for kit #2 - are you sure your scale is functioning properly? Are there any signs of illness? Are these both female kits? Juanita may be correct. I would wean and give them powdered milk supplement and see if they improve, but those numbers seem very, very odd. And small for 9wk old twins...

ETA agree that you should check nipples. I don't think mom is nursing them at this point if they are losing that much weight so not sure you gain anything leaving them in with her...
 
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I'd make sure that the babies aren't bloaty. The mother may be weaning them and have cut them off from milk, as others have stated.

This could come down to digestive difficulty or, at least, the one baby could have an immune system that isn't working very well after weaning. Babies usually keep on steadily gaining after the mother or breeder weans them. After eight weeks most kits eat enough solid food on their own to gain weight, as well.
 
Thanks a lot for your advice! It's the first time I have that kind of problem with a litter. My other kits always grew fast and well and were pretty heavy at that age. As I mentionned, mom had a hard time at the beginning and it took a week before the kits started gaining weight steadily.

Well looks like mom doesn't seem to have any milkd left. Nipples are fine but I don't think she still has milk. That might be the reason of the weight loss, what do you think? I changed the batteries on my scale and BB1 is still 136g this morning, I weight him yesterday evening last. I'm gonna supplement them with milk for a few days, especially the little one. I guess I'll leave them with mom too for now and put another bowl of pellets in case.
 
I'd move them into another cage. She may be running them ragged chasing them at night if they try to nurse. It happens every once in awhile. They are more than old enough to be eating on their own.
 
I had a 1st time mom that delivered last Oct twins. I came home found one baby around 2 pm completely dried. I called Tabitha around 8pm that night because her stomach had a lump about 8:30 she had a little one that ended up dying very small. The mom's milk never came in. My husband and I hand fed the little guy. If we went to the cabin we ended taking mom and baby up to hand feed. At 6 weeks old he wasn't eating hay or pellets so I pulled him from mom. He weighed I think around 140 grs. I put him in with 4 other babies that were born in July and Aug since these guys were PIGS to teach him to eat. We ended up taking all 5 to the cabin twice. All 5 boys are still together and he is the 1st one at the door waiting for fresh food. These guys get fed 2x. At night the hay box is stuff because by the next morning it is gone. As of today he weighs over 500 grs.
 
I made a mistake with the age, they are 8 weeks today and not 9. BB2 is not at 204g. I supplemented milk yesteray and looks like they were starving. THey oth ate 3.5ml. THis morning they took 4.5ml. Should I still separate them if they're 8 weeks. Mom's got no more milk so I guess there won't be a difference. I got another litter, should I try to put them with my other mom here and there? Or at 8 weeks they just don't need milk anymore? BB1 still didn't put on weight so I'm getting worried.

I guess I need them to get eating pellets, if I put milk on it will it help?
 
Anne-Lise said:
I made a mistake with the age, they are 8 weeks today and not 9. BB2 is not at 204g. I supplemented milk yesteray and looks like they were starving. THey oth ate 3.5ml. THis morning they took 4.5ml. Should I still separate them if they're 8 weeks. Mom's got no more milk so I guess there won't be a difference. I got another litter, should I try to put them with my other mom here and there? Or at 8 weeks they just don't need milk anymore? BB1 still didn't put on weight so I'm getting worried.

I guess I need them to get eating pellets, if I put milk on it will it help?
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I would do the powdered milk replacer for sure and hope you can get by with that after you do maybe 1-2 handfeeds a day until you notice them picking back up. I'm kind of torn as to whether I'd do that for too long though, as they'd be weaning soon normally anyways and you want them to be focusing on the pellets at this point. I typically weaned at 7wks/200gs unless they were both female and then I'd let them self wean with mom and never had this issue - but at this point I'd take them out from mom just to see if it helped. They aren't gaining anything being in there other than cuddling with her, if she's allowing it, and she could be stressing them. Also if mom isn't around it may force them to be interested in the pellets and hay. Don't think I'd put them with another female at this age...
 
Do you have other young ones that you can put them with? If yes, I would try putting them with them and still supplement them that is what I did.
 
Anne-Lise said:
I made a mistake with the age, they are 8 weeks today and not 9. BB2 is not at 204g. I supplemented milk yesteray and looks like they were starving. THey oth ate 3.5ml. THis morning they took 4.5ml. Should I still separate them if they're 8 weeks. Mom's got no more milk so I guess there won't be a difference. I got another litter, should I try to put them with my other mom here and there? Or at 8 weeks they just don't need milk anymore? BB1 still didn't put on weight so I'm getting worried.

I guess I need them to get eating pellets, if I put milk on it will it help?
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Are they male or female kits? If they are male, you absolutely need to remove them from their mother otherwise they can in-pregnant her. I would make a mixture of JAGS formula. I used dry goats milk that I found at Whole foods. I crushed up the pellets and added the shreds on the bottom of the hay bag.

1 part calf or goat milk replacer (a dry formula-purchase at a feed store)
1 part crushed pellets
1 part 50/50 mixture of dry rice and oatmeal baby cereal
 
At this age they should barely be nursing, more for comfort than for nourishment. They should be mostly on pellets and hay. I agree with Spoof, separate them.
 
I'll separate them tonight then.
They're both males, but don't worry, I was going to separate them soon anyway, I've had litters before and I never take any chances on stuff like that.

JAGS is pretty far from me. I'm sure his supplement is good but I need to take care of them now. I got other things I could supplement them with other than milk but I prefer to stick with hay and pellet cause they really need to start eating now.

Thanks a lot for all your advice. I'll do a follow up for sure to tell you if they're doing good on their own. I might need other advice!
 
Anne-Lise said:
I'll separate them tonight then.
They're both males, but don't worry, I was going to separate them soon anyway, I've had litters before and I never take any chances on stuff like that.

JAGS is pretty far from me. I'm sure his supplement is good but I need to take care of them now. I got other things I could supplement them with other than milk but I prefer to stick with hay and pellet cause they really need to start eating now.

Thanks a lot for all your advice. I'll do a follow up for sure to tell you if they're doing good on their own. I might need other advice!
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JAGS supplement is just the formula for the powdered milk replacer that you make yourself it's not something you purchase. Army Wife has provided it for you above.
 
Oups thanks :) I'll write that down.
I peeked in this morning and found all the pellets and hay gone in their cage. When baby sleeps I'll weight them and put some more food. Looks good though!
 
Is it possible for a kit to eat too much? Seriously, can they and will it cause a problem? I weighted them and OMG, I couldn't believe how full their bellies were.... I didn't think they'd eat all the pellets and all the hay but they did..... I guess mom was definitely preventing them from eating. I had spread a bit of milk on the pellets too to make sure they'd eat. They'll take the whole day to digest!! I do trust my scale (as all my other animals are still the same weight with it) but the numbers this morning...I don't know....BB1 is at 164g and BB2 at 254g. And when I picked them up I FELT the difference between yesterday and today.

Thanks again for all your advice guys. I've always been breeding with the same 2 females and never had problems with my moms. I feel more knowledgeable today!!
 
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