At what point do you retire chins from breeding that have problem births?

[greychins]

Let me explain that question a little. Many of the chins here have had a stillborn here, a stillborn there. Not usually close to one another in their breeding history, and they go on to have happy healthy bouncing kits in between. But then I got to thinking, is there a certain point, where, even with healthy kits born, you would say too many stillborns, or too many... other problem births... would cause you to pull?

Part 2 of the question-- I had a chin deliver babies today. Normally I'd be all who-hoo! First C-babies! But she had two clearly significantly premature babies. Forearms/legs not formed, eyes not yet formed, just dark spots. Yet she was up to her highest breeding weight ever so I thought she would have been near the end of her pregnancy. Pic for those that want to see -- graphic -- http://www.nwichinchillas.com/premature.jpg. Blurry cause all I had with me was my cell.

So here's here breeding history (while she's been here with me):

10/21/2011 - 1 kit, lived
4/18/2012 - 3 kits, runt passed
7/26/2012 - 1 kit, stillborn (fully formed)
1/16/2013 (today) - 2 kits, premature

Now, I'm thinking the two problem births in a row would mean retirement, but as the two before that were mostly fine, that's where I wonder about how you decide. What would you do?

Without looking at her ped, my best guess is that she's 6-7 years old.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Same sire for all the litters? What's the sire's breeding history like? It could be her inability to bring a litter to term (recently), or it could be something the father is tossing out.

Usually here it's 2 strikes and you're out. Unless she is a very valuable female, and I'm willing to deal with the possible complications again. That being said, I'm much more likely to pull a female from breeding if she can't nurse, than for having stillborns (if there is a history of live kits).

 

[AZChins]

Things just happen with mother chins. I've had vets tell me that I should be amazed that the pregnancy and births ever go smoothly at all because of the problems that can occur.

For me, I give mother chins a first litter to see how they do. First time litters are stressful and can result in the kits passing for a few reasons - 1) the mother's body isn't ready and won't produce enough milk, 2) the mother is inexperienced and freaks out and doesn't know what to do when the kits are born...and, of course, bad things happen. After that if the chin doesn't do well with having kits again in subsequent litters after the first litter is a failure then I think about taking her out of breeding.

In your case, I think you just had a string of bad luck the last couple of litters. She had babies before that lived and did well so that means that she can probably do it again without problems. Unless she is sick or she is on bad feed or stressed or something like that, she can have healthy kits.

This time of year there can be all sorts of problems. For whatever reason December through February are the worst months for my chins to have babies. The kits seem to be larger but not as hearty as they are in the Spring, Summer and Fall. No matter the time of year there is always the potential for premature kits or miscarriage - those really don't mean all that much unless it happens over and over again. For example, my little girl Lemon had a miscarriage and lost kits that were approximately 2 months gestation five months ago but a week ago had two bouncing baby boy kits! (That reminds me, I need to email someone about those...)

I'd give it maybe another litter before I'd retire your girl unless there is a real reason to do so. I'm sorry about the bad luck, premature babies are a nasty surprise to find!

 

[RDZCRanch]

I usually pull after two bad litters, unless it's a valuable female...in which case they get one more chance and then get retired. I don't find that their ability to produce viable kits increases over time. They may have a healthy animal here or there, but if the majority of the kits are stillborn...it will continue that way.

 

[greychins]

Yes, same sire for all the litters. The other females with this male - one has had all live births and the other has had one stillborn (the rest being live births).

She's not a female I can't bear to part with, so if I do need to pull/replace her, I'm fine with that. Would definitely replace her with a chin with a bit less attitude.

 

[AZChins]

You have to think about the reasons behind why the kits are stillborn, as well. The last "stillborn" here was perfect. Something went wrong with the birth like the umbilical detached early or the kit didn't start breathing soon enough. It just happens. I waited on that one to be born for years...but it didn't have anything to do with the mother or her ability to make a healthy baby.

 

[cindyv3737]

I usually pull after two bad litters, unless it's a valuable female...in which case they get one more chance and then get retired. I don't find that their ability to produce viable kits increases over time. They may have a healthy animal here or there, but if the majority of the kits are stillborn...it will continue that way.

Are you saying Artie was not valuable? I'm telling! :tease:

 

[RDZCRanch]

Artie never had a bad litter! She just scared the bejeezus out of me with her last litter of four friggin' babies. I know I couldn't go through that again so it would be best to retire her to a pet home.

 

[cindyv3737]

Artie never had a bad litter! She just scared the bejeezus out of me with her last litter of four friggin' babies. I know I couldn't go through that again so it would be best to retire her to a pet home.

She seems to enjoy her retirement. Love my fat snowball!