Apple wood and lots of it

[halfstache]

After having read the other thread about preparing wood and how most folks don't find it an enjoyable process, I got to thinking that I might like to get into mass producing apple wood and selling it. So I used some of my connections and found an apple orchard manager who is willing to give me wood whenever available, but its not an organic orchard. I'm meeting with the manager tomorrow who is going to go over their entire process and disclose to me all the chemicals that are used in the orchard and when and how they are treated. I'm looking to have the wood tested by a pesticide residue analysis lab and they should be able to tell me if the process of sanitizing the wood (cut, scrub, boil, bake) does in fact eliminate residues, and how well it works. So this brings me to my main question, does anyone know if there is a guideline for how much of any specific chemical can be on wood for it to be considered chinchilla safe? Or does anyone know of any specific chemical residues which would be an definite no for chinchillas? Obviously zero residue would be ideal, but I'd like to know just how many ppm (parts per million) would be safe.

 

[Riven]

I wouldn't feed any. I can't imagine anyone's done a study on it as it would be expensive. Why not just get organic? The toxins can adhere into the wood for a long time...

 

[Spoof]

I would never feed anything I knew was sprayed regardless. Google roudup and PPM toxicity and you'll find a host if information. When I was in school (1998-2003) it was commonly accepted that most pesticides were stored in wood and had a half life of 7 years. That may have changed.

 

[halfstache]

I'm not sure if I can find an organic orchard in my area, but even if so, I'm actually not entirely sure that it would even be the best choice. I mean in an organic situation there is going to be a higher likelihood of fungus, parasites, and other things which could pose a health risk. I know we have discussed plenty of times the methods of preparing wood to be sure its safe, but I think that if the wood was less likely to have fungus or parasites to begin with, and then if its lab tested and found to be just as safe or possibly even more safe after having been processed, that would be a great benefit. But then I won't know what I'm dealing with until I talk to the manager and find out what's being used and then get the testing done. It could all be for nothing, but I'm really curious to see what the testing says. I spoke with a food safety consultant from the lab and she felt that the results of the wood being processed would likely come back quite favorably, but we will see, providing the testing doesn't break the bank.

 

[Riven]

We have organic trees without fungus or parasites... even sprayed trees can have those things anyway. I guess I can't see justifying the testing because what if this tree was sprayed too much and got twice as much as that tree, you wouldn't know. For the couple hundred dollars or more the testing would cost ( just guessing) I'd just buy it from a reputable dealer. The problem with a "food safety consultant" is that they don't test for chinchilla sensitivity. People can eat things that chins can't without health concerns, and our tolerance is growing due to higher and higher usages of chemicals. Processing the wood (boiling, baking, whatever makes you happy with that bit) will kill parasites and most undetectable fungus spores, but it won't remove the toxins that are embedded into the wood itself from years, and years of spraying. This all kind of reminds me of how they used the pressure treated wood for years, the CCA, until kids began to get sick from the arsenic leaching into playgrounds. They didn't know years ago that would happen, and the same with chins being fed wood that's chemicalized ( yea, I totally just made that word up). It might not show up for 5-6 years or more, or in offspring due to mutated genes or what not. Who knows.

Just my 2 cents, in the end, it's your chins, and your money, but either way that the wood comes from treated trees would morally need to be released IMO. It's one thing put your own animals at possible risk, another to sell it. Not only morally, but financially someone could come back at you with medical bills and other costs from sick animals if you're going to "mass produce", and as someone who does process and sell wood, although not as much as I used to, it's a come and go supply system. The demand is not consistent.

 

[melbur10]

Here's something to consider.
I've watched several documentarys on pesticides in school.
Now adays people are hitting puberty wayy earlier than they use to, they have found direct links to the amount of pesticides we consume now because we buy all our food from the supermarket and don't grow it ouselves.
Direct links have also shown children who live in small towns in Mexico where pesticides are dumped and used on crops regularly showed huge development imarment, could not draw a person (only squiggles) could not catch a ball. Chilldren who lived in a mountain village which seldom saw pesticide use could catch a ball, could draw a stick person.

These are HUMANS we are much bigger, yet pesticide use and consumption messes with our development and our hormones.

I would never feed some thing sprayed to my young children and I would not feed it to my fur children. Look how much smaller they are. If you had studied this topic I doubt you would feed it either

 

[halfstache]

I completely agree that morally it would need to be stated what type trees the wood came from. If I had decided to go forward with this endeavor, I would have been advertising it as treated and lab tested, but everyone responding is making a good point, if it came from a treated tree, regardless of the test results, they wouldn't use it. That is very important, and good to know. Believe me, I have no intention of giving my chins anything that is harmful to them, nor do I want to try to sell something that I believe in anyway would be harmful, or even might be harmful. That was why I wanted to look into the testing, but given that I can find no set standards as to what is, and what is not safe, I more than likely will not be even bothering to test, and will just instead look elsewhere for an organic wood supply. The idea of testing wood though from a source I know has been treated is really intriguing. I got to thinking about it and I really want to know just how much pesticide is in the wood, especially compared to what has been processed, and for that matter, I'd like to compare that to something that is considered organic, and to something that is store bought as a chew toy. The test results would be interesting to see, but at this point I really doubt that the cost of testing would be worth it. I'd really only want to test if I knew there was a market for the end product, but since it seems that there wouldn't be a market even if the testing came back with insanely wonderful results (which I'm sure it most likely would not) then I'd only be paying for tests to satisfy my own curiosity. In the end, though it looks like I should just keep looking for a better supply of wood. Thanks for pointing out some things I was over looking before I wasted a bunch of time and money. :thumbsup:

 

[Morselchip87]

Maybe it's because I'm new to being a Chin Mom, but if it could be proven that non-organic wood is just as safe as the organic wood, I'd buy it. The way I see it we are all just taking someone else's word that what we are buying is indeed organic. The FDA isn't involved in chibble-stick manufacturing. When I go to the grocery store I buy regular fruits and veggies not the organic ones (mainly due to the price). Yes, they have proven that due to the hormones that are in the food we eat, it has effected humans. But if I don't plan on breeding my chin(s), what's the harm? <-- Again, assuming it was proven that the level of toxins in the wood was negligible.

Halfstache - This may be a moot point now, since it sounds like you have decided to look for an organic tree-farm... but how would you propose to check quality? Would you have batch acceptance testing? Test a piece from each tree?

Just to re-iterate, I haven't knowingly fed my chin anything harmful - I've only purchased wood from reputable people on this site.

 

[halfstache]

Halfstache - This may be a moot point now, since it sounds like you have decided to look for an organic tree-farm... but how would you propose to check quality? Would you have batch acceptance testing? Test a piece from each tree?

What I had been thinking was first obtain a list of all pesticides used on the orchard directly from the operating manager, and then knowing what chemicals to test for, I could have had specific testing done on random samples from wood which was unprocessed and random samples from wood which had been processed. The problem I had with that is that unless the test results came back as nil, I wouldn't know for sure what was acceptable and what was not as far as health and safety for chinchillas goes. Either way though it is a moot point now. Today I did some more looking around and made some more phone calls and ended up finding an small organic apple orchard that surrounds a bed and breakfast that is up near Yosemite. The people there are wonderful and told me that if I would like to come help them with pruning, I can have all the wood I want from their 80 apple trees. So basically instead of paying for testing, I'll pay for a little extra gas and can get organic wood which most folks would be happier with anyway. Pruning doesn't happen until december to january, so it'll be a ways off yet before I can have any processed and ready to ship, but its nice knowing I'll have a supply of it soon.