alternative feed ideas

[ysy]

hi everyone,

as some of you probably know, my chin Kelly has some digestive issues. The vet believes that it's probably something that will follow her for life and I'm looking at an alternative food staple for her to prevent any future problems.

She is solely on CC and wheatgrass hay which she's fond of. There's free flow timothy (oxbow) which she dislikes but will eat if there's nothing else.

I have tried to introduce pellets back (Oxbow) but it always constipates her, even in small amounts. I don't think her system can handle those anymore.

I'm also looking for food that will allow her to gain some weight. She's put back some since her ordeal but is holding steady at 450g now. She was around 490 before. She's not horribly thin but still has some way to go compared to my other two chins.

My only criteria for food is that it is readily available here. I'm willing to ship but obviously it needs to have a really long shelf life so that i can ship in bulk.

thanks!

 

[ChinnyMom]

would Mazuri pellets work for her? i've read that they sometimes cause a bit softer poo in some chins, so that might mean no constipation for her? hopefully somebody with a bit more info in that regard can chime in!

i've read about chins being on a hay only diet and doing well, but i don't think i'd be comfortable doing that with Rhino.

 

[Ash]

would Mazuri pellets work for her? i've read that they sometimes cause a bit softer poo in some chins, so that might mean no constipation for her? hopefully somebody with a bit more info in that regard can chime in!

i've read about chins being on a hay only diet and doing well, but i don't think i'd be comfortable doing that with Rhino.

I only know one person on here who did a hay-only diet and I recall she hated it because the chin didn't keep as much weight to him.

 

[ticklechin]

I had two who had horrid digestive issues that eventually got to the point they were put down due to tumors. Before diagnosis the worst one was on a hay only diet for over a year. The fur quality and muscle mass were effected to the point he was pulled off it. I also have used a timmy only diet which also failed. What is the diagnosis of the chins condition? Is the chin wheat intolerant?

 

[ysy]

ChinnyMom,
I'm not sure if Mazuri would work, because I really think her problem is with pellets irregardless of the brand.

Ticklechin,
I'm not sure if she is wheat intolerant, we never had a test done if there is one, but she takes organic wheatgrass hay okay. Kelly is just extremely prone to constipation. She's about one and a half years old (young chin) and had survived 2 stasis and prolapses, with the recent case being the worst.

Vet believes she has irritable bowel syndrome and may never be able to handle hay and pellets ever again and needs to be put on CC for the rest of her life. Honestly, I have no problem with that but I've hit a snag with regards to her weight, I can't get it to go back to where it was before she got sick with just CC and hay. Vet says for her size she needs to be around 480g, 500g is better if I can manage it.

I managed to introduce hay okay, but introduced pellets (i cut out 1 session of CC and gave 1 teaspoon of pellets instead) and 2 days later, she's constipated. I had to pull the pellets and massively feed CC, massage/exercise to get her poops normal again.

I'm not looking at giving her a hay only diet, I was just wondering if there's any alternative chin suitable food out there that's easy on the digestive system and yet provides all the nutrition they need (in other words, better nutrition than CC)

 

[ticklechin]

The problem with feeding the CC is the teeth, you will end up with overgrown teeth fairly quick without the chewing of pellets and hay. Have you tried a timothy pellet yet? American pet diner makes one.

 

[jessican]

Someone made a feed for chins who can't eat due to illness. I'm not sure if you'll find it appropriate but here's the site

http://members.shaw.ca/chinchillas/food.html

 

[ppsamm]

ysy,

I am very curious about her diet history. Hope u can share with us and is she eating timothy hay? or she is just taking wheatgrass hay?

The better pellets that are available in singapore are mazuri, oxbow and apd feeds.

ChinnyMom,
I'm not sure if Mazuri would work, because I really think her problem is with pellets irregardless of the brand.

Ticklechin,
I'm not sure if she is wheat intolerant, we never had a test done if there is one, but she takes organic wheatgrass hay okay. Kelly is just extremely prone to constipation. She's about one and a half years old (young chin) and had survived 2 stasis and prolapses, with the recent case being the worst.

Vet believes she has irritable bowel syndrome and may never be able to handle hay and pellets ever again and needs to be put on CC for the rest of her life. Honestly, I have no problem with that but I've hit a snag with regards to her weight, I can't get it to go back to where it was before she got sick with just CC and hay. Vet says for her size she needs to be around 480g, 500g is better if I can manage it.

I managed to introduce hay okay, but introduced pellets (i cut out 1 session of CC and gave 1 teaspoon of pellets instead) and 2 days later, she's constipated. I had to pull the pellets and massively feed CC, massage/exercise to get her poops normal again.

I'm not looking at giving her a hay only diet, I was just wondering if there's any alternative chin suitable food out there that's easy on the digestive system and yet provides all the nutrition they need (in other words, better nutrition than CC)

 

[mishellyshel]

Have you ever tried the Beaphar plus chinchilla food? I dont know if it would be an appropriate substitute or addition in this case. I know a few members including Dawn (Ticklechin) and myself have and still do use it in our chins with Dental issues.

You can actually go to their website and read the ingredients;

www.beaphar.com

I order from www.petswithhart.com they are based in the United Kingdom because no one in the USA distributes........yet.

I would also add some Alfalfa to her diet. Maybe a handful every other or third day. I give my one dental chin only alfalfa because it is all he will eat.

You can also try some herbs maybe a small pinch(less than 1/2 teaspoon) of peppermint or chamomile flowers a couple times a week??

 

[Spoof]

Ticklechin,
I'm not sure if she is wheat intolerant, we never had a test done if there is one, but she takes organic wheatgrass hay okay. Kelly is just extremely prone to constipation. She's about one and a half years old (young chin) and had survived 2 stasis and prolapses, with the recent case being the worst.

Some chins are extremely gluten intolerant, there was a lawsuit in CA over a feed that everyone switched to that caused a large number of deaths. To simplify it, the villi that absorb the nutrients in the intestines would get squished flat by the wheat products causing the chins to starve to death.

Fiber is the #1 thing that helps food move through the GI tract. Many pellets do not have enough digestible fiber. In areas where hay is hard to come by they use wheat/corn by-products and ash which cause the symptoms you have described.

When chins first came to the U.S. they were fed a grain diet with hay until advancements in powdered supplements were made. You could try some grains that do not contain gluten.

 

[ticklechin]

The second wheat intolerant chin who was diagnosed with it ended up with a alfalfa only horse pellet and timothy hay, that was all he got but the damage to the intestines was already done and he was put down. The chins were a father and son, both had the issue, and the sisters to the son also had the issue.

 

[ysy]

Thanks for the suggestions! Kelly and I really appreciate it.

Spoof - do you know of any foods offhand that are gluten-free? Was checking labels on a lot of brands and find that most of them have some kind of wheat to them, even Oxbow CC. Kelly takes CC okay, as well as wheatgrass hay, does that mean she's not wheat intolerant?

Ticklechin - If you don't mind me asking, how did your chins come to be diagnosed as being wheat tolerant. My vet never said anything about it to me, he just said that Kelly might not be able to handle pellets because all these are processed foods, and probably best to go back to basics (ie. natural food)

Mishellyshel - Beaphar Care sounds wonderful. I might give that a try if I can get my hands on it.

Ppsamm - Her diet history is very simple. Oxbow pellets and timmy hay all the way. Currently she does take the timothy, but only if there's no wheatgrass hay in the cage. What I do is to not re-fill the bowl before I sleep (after her last session of CC) and she will take the timmy in the night. Not much though

 

[ticklechin]

The vet had seen it in other chins, the bloat, constipation, diarrhea, for no reason, pull the pellets and just give hay and everything settles down, reintroduce pellets and the problem comes back. Back in those days I would treat loose poo with shreddies, that almost killed both chins and that was the ultimate way it was diagnosed by the vet, the extreme reaction to wheat.

You might end up giving a alfalfa only pellet and hay, because long term if the problem is not resolved there can be damage to the intestinal tract.

Also, I would not give the Beaphar to this chin, the ingrediants IMO would not do well with a chin who has a intestinal issue. The chin needs simple at this point.

 

[Spoof]

Wheatgrass does not have gluten in it. I don't know what you have available in your country, it would be wise to research and educate yourself on local products. I've learned by experimentation and watching the herd.

I was feeding Purina Wellsolve L/S to the chins after my horse left to use it up - but the cost is phenomenally outrageous @ $40/bag. They did very well on it. It is low starch but does contain some gluten. Sensitivity to sugars can also cause the problems you are experiencing, you'll probably have to do a lot of trial and error with feeds. The important thing is to supplement the minerals she is not getting from the hay.

Here's a UK feed you can buy it on amazon.co.uk that is gluten free. I've never heard of it, but it popped up on a horse forum the other day.

 

[ysy]

Thank you Ticklechin and Spoof for all your advice.

I will research more and find a suitable diet for her. Meanwhile I will keep her on the CC and wheatgrass hay as she seems to do fine with it. Is it okay to free feed her alfafa hay since she's not taking any pellets?

The problem I have over here is that we have no local products. Everything is imported and as such only the most popular feeds are brought in by merchants. I guess I'll be spending this weekend at the pet stores reading feed ingredients.

 

[Tanya]

It's possible that your chin gets constipated when she eats pellets because processed feeds are more difficult to digest (enzymes are destroyed). Plant enzymes are more sensitive than vitamins. Also, low levels of enzymes in the diet can lead to the build-up of toxins. Maybe that's why when you offer only hay, your chin's condition improves as she gets enzymes and co-enzymes necessary for the chain of reactions. It's also best to offer organic hay to avoid herbicides, pesticides as they can cause enzyme depletion.

You can also add some organic, safe herbs to your chin's diet. Herbs are great sources of nutrients, enzymes, and secondary compounds that possess medicinal properties. For example, dandelion leaf/root is especially beneficial when constipation is cumulative effect of gallbladder and liver dysfunction/congestion. When you offer various hays and herbs, it will be easier for your chin to meet her need for nutrients and optimize interactions between toxins and nutrients; all plants contain toxins. Chins determine safe amount of toxins to ingest by types and concentrations of toxins and nutrients they have access to.

Some synthetic nutrients in pellets can also cause constipation.
Have you tried using pellets that contain only a few synthetic nutrients and do not contain ferrous sulfate?