13% protien alfalfa n timmy based pellets

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Eric4144

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Ok i feed alfalfa as a primary hay. My chin gets alfalfa blocks daily and gets a loos mix of timothy alfalfa and bermuda hay. I found a pellet that is 13% protien but the first ingredient is wheat middlings thn alfalfa and timmothy. Is this ok that they are not first?
 
Manna pro that he wont eat suddenly. (bought two diff bags thought maybe was prob w new bag) to lm animal farms bonanza gourmet rabbit diet take dried fruits out offer sparingly and am offering alfalfa daily as well as the loose mix i mentioned. They were out of the chinchilla bonanza diet with no dried fruitsor veggies except carrots. Was wonderring if it was ok for the hay in the feed to be listed second. It was listed first in the chinchilla feed. N neither of these feeds have the crap ingredients list as lm gold chinchilla diet w animal by products.
 
I know alot of the UK feeds have wheat at a first ingrediant, if you can post a complete nutritional analysis it would be more helpful.
 
i leave the rose hips parsely clipped oats n flaxseed in bc their amounts are low n they r healthier treats. They also do not cause him to neglect his pellets which he seems to actually like. I dont know why suddenly he wont eat manna pro anymore.
 
I know its not ideal bc of the treats but what other reasons would you not feed it ticklechins?
 
The ingredients are supposed to be beneficial to rabbits, not chinchillas. There are few rabbit pellets that are classified as "ok" for a chinchilla diet, this is not one of them. I would even classify this as a junk food for rabbits. There's not really anything good to say about this mix, it's just a "rabbit" version of Charley chinchilla and other "fortified" chinchilla pellets.
 
I also chose this food b/c of its low protein content. I have an older chin that has not been growing for many years. I know about the excepted rabbit foods and why. Based on Timothy hay as a main food source the rabbit food should contain 16 to 20% protein 1:2 ratio on phosforus and calcium low fat no more than 4% preferably and contain comparable vitamin and mineral content to chin feed. I'm not new to this. I understand NO ONE on this forum likes the mixed foods. I undestand why. I know that to much sugary or high fat food is very detrimental and also that to much Vitamin A encourages yellow fat which is very hard on a chinchilla's liver. However My question isn't about the treats in this feed. I've already said I'm carefully controling his treat intake. It was about the alfalfa/protein content. I was currious as to the quality of a pellet with low protein but had wheat midlings and then alfalfa listed in the ingredients as opposed to it being timothy first and then wheat middlings in a low protein pellet. I'm also going towards hay being his primary source of food and treating feed as a very small portion of that daily consumption. He gets no more than two table spoons daily. I only feed the feed for it's vitamin mineral and nutrient content. I'm not sure if alfalfa hay alone would provide adequate nutrition. I have heard of many vets that only feed hay period I think one of the consulting vets on this forum do this. I've been considering this option myself but again I need to know that he is getting what he needs.

Minus the treats the ingredients list is essentially very similiar to the more excepted feeds. The first part of this was the basis of my question. Minus the treats can anyone answer if this would be ok for now with alfalfa as a primary hay being a low protein feed, which is what I'm looking for, with alfalfa in its ingredients list. thank you for your responses thus far.

Ingredients
Wheat middlings, soybean hulls, dehydrated alfalfa meal, cane molasses, dehulled soybean meal, flaxseed meal, salt, lignin sulfonate, timothy hay, ground limestone, clipped oats, choline chloride, DL-methionine, oat groats, dried carrots, soybean oil, dried papaya, dried pineapple, orange peel, roasted green peas, vitamin E supplement, sodium selenite, pumpkin seeds, raisins, roasted soybeans, dried cranberries, dried bananas, ferrous sulfate, magnesium oxide, rose hips, niacin supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, flaxseed, manganese sulfate, sugar, calcium pantothenate, zinc oxide, dried peppermint, thiamine mononitrate, pyrioxine hydrochloride, copper sulfate, rolle oats, biotin, vitmain a acetate, cobalt carbonate, corn syrup, zinc sulfate, riboflavin supplement, palm oil, ethylenediamine dihydriodide, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, mineral oil, ground corn, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, dried parsley, ground blueberries, natural flavoring, sunflower oil, rosemary extract, canola oil, mixed tocopherols.


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Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min.) 13.5%, Crude Fat (min.) 4.0%, Crude Fiber (min.) 16.0%, Crude Fiber (max.) 18.0%, Moisture (max.) 12.0%, Calcium (Ca) (min) 0.47%, Calcium (Ca) (max.) 0.76%, Phosphorus (min.) 0.53%, Salt (min.) 0.22%, salt (max.) 0.5%, vitamin A (min.) 5000 IU/lb, vitamin D (min.) 500 IU/lb, vitamin E (min.) 50 IU/lb, Omega 6 fatty acids (min.) 1.6%.
 
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When ingredients are listed on the bag, they do not list whether they are included in the ground pellet mixture or put in whole. It could be one way or both which is just ONE of SEVERAL reasons NOT to give a feed that has treats. What I gathered from your post right now is that you asked a specific question and despite our better judgement you would like us to ignore all other facts about that feed and just give you an answer so you can justify using that feed? You've been told it's crap. Switch to something better and stop looking for excuses for why it's ok for you to be lazy and not look into a healthier option for your chin.

I've talked to many ranchers about diet and every single one of them scoffed at the idea of a hay only diet. All agreed that hay is important, but so is a pellet. I believe Ticklechin tried an all hay diet for a short period of time and did not have good results? I've also talked at length to my vet who has 15yrs+ of experience with chinchillas and he also does not agree with an all hay diet for chinchillas.
 
I had one chin on a all hay diet for a year or so and the Vet and I both agreed it failed, his fur quality and muscle mass was decreased and even though his digestive system worked good he was not "built" for that low of protein and fat diet (this was a chin who was 100% wheat intolerant and could not eat anything with wheat, he ended up with a 100% alfalfa horse pellet). I also used the all timothy diet-hay and pellets with the rest of my chins when that was the "fad" a few years ago-fur quality diminished. If you have your heart set on a timothy pellet then feed American pet diners timmy pellet, its low protein what you want and chin appropriate. As for me, I feed Oxbow pellets and a combo of timothy, oat and alfalfa hay, it has had the most consistant desirable results for my "herd".

APD timmy pellets:\

Crude Protein (not less than)14.00%
fat 2.00%
min fiber18.00%
max fiber 25.00%
ash 12.00%
cal min1.00%
cal max1.50%
phos min0.50%
phos max 0.75%
vit c 93 mg/lb


INGREDIENTS:



Suncured Timothy Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Canola Meal, Ground Wheat, Monocalcium & Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Brewers Yeast , Salt, Condensed Lignin Sulfonate (binder), L-Ascorbic Acid Phosphate (Stabilized Vitamin C), Mold Inhibitor (Propionic Acid, Acetic Acid, Sorbic Acid, Benzoic Acid, Ammonium Hydroxide), Yeast Cell Wall Extract, Calcium Aluminosilicate, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Methionine, Copper Lysine, Manganese Methionine, Cobalt Glucoheptonate, Flavoring, Folic Acid, Chromium Picolinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Yucca Schidigera Whole Plant Powder, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide (carrier for liquid antioxidants), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite (source of Vitamin K activity), Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, D-Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Tribasic Copper Chloride, Ethylene Diamine Dihydroiodide, Sodium Selenite.
 
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I have fed dried fruits and veggies alwaysI sparringly. It is a fact that as long as u do so sparringly and dont offer gas causing veggies like broccli it WILL NOT cause problems. I am looking for a viable local alternative localy for personal economic reasons. I have already stated I understand the bias towards mixed food. Also you can look at the ingredients list n see it states what is ground and what isnt. Ticklechins I appreciate the info. I however would never feed a timmy only diet. Your vet should have told you that chinchillas need alfalfa as primary basis for their diet whether it be in the form of hay or pellets. Timmy should never be fed alone to any animal. You will slowly starve it to death.
 
I never said to feed a timmy only diet, I stated if you are looking for a low protein pellet then the timmy only pellet from APD is a good choice rather than the one you are looking at. Not sure why when people ask for help or advice the messenger is always shot when the news does not meet their expectations, I:E the food you want to feed is garbage.
 
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Also I said I AM NOT feeding an all hay diet. Where did that even come from? Answer to my question is in uk alfalfa is not listed first in ingredients in many cases beyond that no one knows.
 
Eric,
I cleaned up this thread and don't want to have to do it again. You asked for opinions and that is what you are getting.

If you are being misunderstood, then explain yourself again. If you just don't like the answers that you are getting, ignore them and do whatever you are going to do.
 
First all animal feed that contains significant levels of vitamins and minerals is fortified. The only difference is if it is fortified before the heated pelleted process or afterwards. Heat sensitive vitamins are best added after this process so most feed is fortified afterwards. A few may use a combination adding heat sensitive vitamins after the pelleting process. If you feed pellets you ARE feeding fortified feed. Saying feed is bad because it is fortified is a mute point indeed and incorrect. So that is one incorrect fact and "better" judgement.Secondly in most feeds not all that contain some treats have the added benefit of also being fortified with vitamins and minerals. If you remove these treats from the feed the change in the guaranteed analysis is negligable at worst. It does not significantly change the guaranteed analysis of the feed in better pelleted mixes. You must look at the diet as a whole. Charlie Chinchilla is still crap bc it is not adequatelynutricious for a chin.

I have by the way since called my local feed store and the Chinchilla version of this feed will be available monday. I plan to get it then. I also wanted to point out a big reason we feed animals pellets is bc they are fortified. Otherwise we would only feed grazing animals hay. The earth is significantly depleted in nutrients and hay no longer holds the mineral content it did 100 yrs ago. I know well what ranchers feed and why they feed it. No one even knows what dietary changes an older chin may need to support its changing needs. All creatures great and small need dietary changes as they age. Thank you for your time but im still currious as to the answer for my original question and I will let you know when I find it so the next person that asks isnt lazy and looking for excuses when they dont do exactly what you do. The treat content in the chinchilla version of this food is so small I also probably will not remove any of them. I will also inform you of how it goes.
 
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Also the messenger wouldnt get shot if snap judgements werent made and the questioner didnt get shot first. I asked why this feed is bad for a chins diet besides the fact that it has treats in the pelleted mix. I also asked it to be considered that I currently free feed alfalfa as a primary hay to ensure adequate protien in the diet. Instead of a calm response to my questions I was called lazy and looking for excuses when I didnt automaticly except your opinion. I was looking for facts to back up that opinion. Some where offered but not with out drama. Im obviously not lazy and have done a great deal of personal research. Thank you for your time. I will however carefully consider it before i ask further questions on this topic bc the response feels like shut up and do what we do bc its what we do and its what my local fur farmer has always done. I also want to ensure you that to date by far my favorite chinchilla feed is oxbow. When things change I will obtain it. My second favorite is Mazuri.

ErinsChins said:
It doesn't matter if treat content is low, it still is not good for them.

Bad owner is bad.[/QU By the way oxbow is a great example of a wonderfully fortified feed. Dont feed it though bc according to your snap judgements that would make you a bad owner. Also the treats in the chinchilla version a readily excepted as healthy and most people feed them daily ie rosehips dried parsely and dried mint. The dried carrot content (which is the only dried fruit or veggie in this mix) is so low he wont get one but about every other day if then. Also ground blueberries are in the mix however it is at the very bottom of the list. A bad owner is one who excepts everything they are told and doesnt do their own research and doesnt even know why they do something. Just because they got lucky and it seems to work well does not make them a better owner Dont even get me started there. I know what Im doing. I asked a specific question for this reason. If you cant answer that specific question or

if you can not offer correct information or facts to back up your opinions then you should not respond. Thank you that is all.

Also a bad owner would not spend sixty dollars on feed alone in a three week period for one chin while neglecting their own needs. So again dont make snap judgements on something you know nothing about. He by the way will not eat purina naturewise or the pro formula of manna pro either. He had a vet check and he is perfectly healthy and loves hay. Gobbles it up.
Click to expand...
 
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Money doesn't make a good owner, sorry, but it's true. And if you think it does, then why don't you spend the extra money to get good quality food shipped from the US or somewhere else.

When he gets hungry, he will eat. Chins don't starve them selves. And constantly switching his feed is going to do nothing but **** up his system.

If there are better options out there, then I don't see why you don't use them. If you want proof about something that I "know nothing about" then I will gladly call up my e vet from the case of bloat/rectal prolapse I had years ago from poor diet and get you a printed copy.

Also, i'm pretty sure you've already been told about double and triple posting. This isn't a chat room.
 
Also to date he rarely gets a sugary treat so I know this is not why he stopped eating his pellets and the treats i do give him daily are in very small amounts and rotated. He gets rose hips shredded wheat whole oats mixed herbs some dried flower heads occasional horse cookie crumbs rare papya tablet and rare dehydrated bananna peice. While I feed chinchilla version some of these treats he will no longer get. He is not fat nor skinny. Teeth are nice and deep orange none are broken no malo and no cavities and he is twelve going on thirteen. Everything is great except he has hardly touched a pellet in over a month. I think he eats this rabbit feed bc it might taste better with flavors being obsorbed from the treats. I dont know for sure. He will get the chin version and alfalfa hay offered will be reduced in frequency. So that I know for certian his diet is balanced. Thanks for your time.

First I have made NO duplicate posts. You arent a mod so dont moderate me. That also is not allowed. What were you feeding your chin? What hay did you offer daily if any. What extras where you feeding? Where there any other medical conditions along with this problem? Was water intake adequate? What exactly did you do wrong? Also please read through this thread more accurately. I live in the u.s. I am not ordering online at this time for personal economic reasons that are no ones business on this forum. If you read the thread through you would know this. Oh and happy birthday by the way. I noticed it is your birthday when I logged back on.

If my broken up posts are a problem I appologize I am having to do this from my cell phone.
 
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