question about pedigrees

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Narcissus

Narcissus

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
510
Location
idaho
I'm curious to the ritual of keeping pedigrees. 5 of my chins are pedigreed, three have immaculate pedigrees. info included on the pedigree is name, chin #, ranch brand, color, and any place they took in shows. this info is given for every "relative" on the pedigree. two of these chins I bought from Pure Ebil Ranch, the other is Bindi Sue II bred by Purple Sage Chinchillas (my pride and joy). The other two chins have "pedigrees" but they only include the name and color. No # or ranch brand. im not positive where these chins were originally from. the travel cages they came in had "valley view chinchillas" on it. but even their pedigrees dont have the ranch name. so, my question is this: what is the point in only keeping track of colors? do any breeders keep pedigrees just for color? possibly for "pet" sales only where a pet owner woulnt need/want a full pedigree? I understand some breeders arent as "up to par" but I was just wondering if there was a reason for this.
 
It would be, just for the reason you said. It's a pet type pedigree. Either a good breeder gave it out because it's the only thing of importance (animal was not worth breeding so a detailed pedigree was not given out intentionally) OR a crappy breeder gave it out because it's the only info they had on two chins they shouldn't have bred. That said, for your small numbers I'm glad to see you even took note of pedigrees! So many people with small numbers don't even care about a pedigree, to the extent of not taking them or tossing them out.
 
I have every ambition of becoming a breeder, it will be awhile before I achieve this. I chose to buy quality chins for my pets because I lost my first chin to malo. something I dont want to do again. luckily the few chins that I have taken in from people have not hsd any issues. Although I dont know alot about "show" qualities, it is obvious to me that the two chins with color only pedigrees are deffinatly not the same quality as the three with full pedigrees. Bindi Sue II is the most beautiful chin I have, none compare to her. I was very lucky to stumble on to her.
 
I personally wouldn't even call it a "pedigree" if it just had the name and color on it, but that's just me.

Keeping track of colors is done, I always assumed, so you can see the "color history" of the chin. I feel it can also tell you something about the breeder. For example, one of my friends just purchased a chin from a "breeder" where for the last 3 generations, this breeder bred violet x violet = violet. In case the problem isn't clear, let me explain -- those chins would have to be show-stopping GSC violets for someone to breed violets x violets, as most people would breed violets to standard violet carriers as violets can typically use some improvement. So... in that case, those pairings tell me that breeder was more concerned about churning out more violets than they were concerned about churning out quality.

Also, another reason color is kept track of is because some colors are recessive. I have a standard chin here... he must have ebony SOMEWHERE in his lines (though there's no ebs on his pedigree) because when we bred him several times... we'd get ebonies or some dirty-bellied standards. In the case of someone wanting to breed pure standards... it would be worth noting that this male is clearly an eb carrier. Which a pedigree should divulge, if the person did know he was an eb carrier.

I have seen a breeder keep pedigrees just for color. Same (bad) breeder as mentioned above (with the violets)... different friend bought two standard females from them. The pedigrees read: standard, standard, standard, standard, standard, standard, standard... and so on. Now, I don't know how that's a helpful "pedigree" at all, because for all anyone knows, those chins could be inbred, the two standard she has could be related somehow, no one knows. For a pedigree like that... I would say that was someone who wanted to breed chins, didn't have chins of quality (so, no pedigrees), heard that good chins have pedigrees, and decided to "make up" pedigrees. Cause really, who can't fake a pedigree when it's only colors?

But ignoring bad breeders... I've actually noticed that I have more pedigrees that have a ton of information like ranch brand, animal number, show placings... but not color. So, I wouldn't think the average breeder would keep a pedigree just for the purpose of keeping track of color.

Even for pet sales, I still provide a full pedigree if someone's buying a pedigreed chin from here. Maybe they don't want to breed now, but maybe in the future they might, and they'd have the full pedigree then. But, I've seen several breeders that will give very limited pedigree if it's a pet sale... I suppose they don't feel the need to mess with writing out a whole pedigree when the person buying the chin doesn't care about the pedigree and doesn't intend to breed the chin.

That said, I bought a chin at Nationals a few years ago from one of the well known ranches (now out of business). The pedigree listed the number of the chin (A20), the number of her parents, and that's it. If I didn't know which ranch she came from (which I do know from her show card), it wasn't on the pedigree. Neither were the colors of either parent. And that was from a well known breeder, who I would have expected "more" from. When this person was handing me her pedigree, he was flipping through several pedigrees, and they all looked just as barren when it came to the amount of information being on them. On the other hand, I've gotten pedigrees from other well known ranchers that includes everything down to great great grandparents. Maybe not color on all of em (but def. colors on the ones that rancher bred), but information on ranch brand and chin number. So, some detailed, some not so much.

So, I think it just depends on the individual breeder as to how in-depth the pedigree is. For me, I want the most info possible, and if I have the info, I will put it down on the pedigree.

Back to those two standards.... my friend isn't breeding them, they're just pets, but with those "pedigrees" I wouldn't be comfortable breeding them even if they did look like stellar examples of chins. I feel there's just not enough information, at least for me.
 
I bought a herd out probably six years ago and it had alot of .com animals in it, they had pedigrees with them but it never once listed the color or the original breeder. Do they still do this? I have the same from various breeders who show and who doesn't but bought great animals for their herds that have great pedigrees and some very short with not much on them. I personally do not write up pedigrees unless I'm taking animals to a claiming show, if I ask if they want it or they ask me. I'm not sure why a lot of pet only owners don't want them here in Co as it has so much info packed in one place but 9 times out of 10 people buying pets from me say ' oh she/he is just a pet I don't need it.' So my guess is sometimes breeders hear this so much they could get sloppy when writing up pedigrees.I have boughten chins at a show where the breeder was in such a hurry to write the pedigree because they had to get back on the road they left info out. When that happens I just call them a few days later for the info, if you called most will help you out or even mail a more detailed one out.
 
I would love to call and see if I could get more info on them.... but im not sure who bred them. I guess I could call valley view chinchillas and ask. but how would I know for sure? the one chins name is "kate" how many breeders would have a chin named kate? I dont know anything about valley view chinchillas.... I guess I could call.
 
well, im not sure where these guys cane from.... so maybe it wasnt valley view. I only suspected valley view because thats the name on the travel cages they came with... guess ill have to keep digging......:hmm:
 
Valley view, in my opinion makes chinchillas in quantity, thats it, just lots and lots of chins.
 
I've seen pedigrees from valley view. When I contacted people about breeders they suposively bought from other breeders. I was told the pedigress were totally made up. They claim to have animals that they don't own and copy other breeders information off the internet. I wouldn't. Consider anything they brred and sell to be a pedigreed animal, paper or no.
 
I don't believe that .com sends any information about the original breeders, usually the original breeder is Jim. Just numbers and colors.
 
One thing I'd like to say about "pet only sales" I give out the birthdate. I'm a small breeder so usually only have a few kits born on any given day. It'd be easy for me to reference any given animal by their birthday. The reason I only give out birthday has nothing to do with the effort involved in pedigree making. It takes literally a few minutes to copy down pedigree info onto a new pedigree. The reason I only give out limited info on pets (and sometimes it will include their parents names/colors) is because I usually charge less for pet sales...even if it's an animal I feel will grow out nicely or has grown out nicely but it hasn't been shown...if the buyer is wanting a pet, a pet they pay for at lower cost than what another breeder would pay for that animal. I'm not dumb enough to think they won't still breed the animal if they want to...and if they later inquired about getting the pedigree I'd probably give the information (or explain again the animal is pet only and no pedigree) but that's why I sell w/o pedigree or w/limited pedigree. A lot of pet people don't want it, don't care about it, AND don't NEED it. And with me at least, they're not paying for it. The same concept behind a lot of pedigreed dogs. You can buy a nice pedigreed dog for a price, or buy the same dog w/o pedigree for a few bucks less. Meh, just my thoughts
 
I am with Ange on this one. I typically give DOB and animal number when it comes to a petsale... and that is only because I heavily discount a pet sale. Doesn't matter if it's from the same line as a show animal..if it goes to a true pet home, the price is reduced for the sale.
 
I bought these chins to be pets, but the people i got them from bought them for breeding.... thankfully after 4 months and no babies they sold them to me. none of the females were pregnant.
 
Tami came with a pedigree when I got her, and it had lots of incomprehensible (at the time) numbers and ranch brands on it. I put it somewhere "safe" and never saw it again, you know how that goes. BUT I got her for a pet, and it really wasn't important to me, so no biggie.
Evie also came with a "pedigree", but it was a joke, full of holes and missing info, and chin names instead of numbers. She later developed malo and had to be put down, but I wasn't really surprised considering. :(
My next chin is coming from Christiane, whom I trust implicitly, because I do not want to go through something like that ever again, pet or not.
 
I didn't think that Valley View had pedigrees. I have to agree with Dawn that they are bred for quantity.

All of my chins are pets first showing is second for them.
 
I also only give out birth dates unless people ask for more. Chins are all roughly the same price, shown or not. I do love to give pedigrees to people who care - there is a certain pride in being able to show someone 10+ generations of your hard work... :))
 
I emailed Valley View a few years back looking for a pedigreed chin. They emailed me back saying "Chinchillas do not have pedigrees."

Every chin I sell comes with a pedigree. If it is a rescue chin, I still use the pedigree, since I use it as a receipt, too. I just put Rescue - NOT for Breeding in beg red letters on it and all of the spaces for the ancestors say unknown in them.
 
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