Who's the Alpha?

[SpaceChinnie]

Hi all! I just joined your wonderful chinnie forum and have already learned so much from it. Thank you all for being so knowledgeable!

I have recently aquired/rescued a mosaic from a friend that loved her, but did not have the time for her anymore. (I kinda got dumped on) I named her Spooky (I got her around halloween time and she looks kinda like a standard chin wearing a white bedsheet lol! pics to come) and she's a real sweetie to me.

Unfortunately she's not so sweet to Kiwi my 2 yr old standard female who's very bonded to me. I have begun the process of intro and their cages have been sitting next to eachother for about 2 wks. (out of chin reach of course) Last night I let them have their first encounter during play time. At first things went well, they were both slowly hopping about, but generally avoiding eachother. Then I guess they "noticed" eachother and Spooky started chasing Kiwi. I had read as many intro articles as I could find and let them chase a bit, because no nipping or fur slipping was happening. But about 2 minutes later the "good" chasing stopped and Kiwi slipped a chunk of hair and Spooky was acting like she wanted to chew poor Kiwi's face off. So I immediatly ended the session.

Here's where I get to my question. When I was putting them back in their cages, Kiwi sprayed Spooky (while I was holding Spook). Is that a sign of dominance? Kiwi was the one being chased and timid, while Spooky (whos physically bigger than Kiwi) looked like she was the aggressor. Personality-wise Kiwi is a faster, more hyper active and smaller chin than spook, who is a very mild/slow/tubby butt, chatty chin.

I'm not sure where I should go from here. Try play time again in a couple days? Who's the alpha chin? My guess is still Spooky.
Thanks for helping! Its nice to meet you all.

 

[Rickman]

I'd try moving their cages about 8 inches apart, and move them closer every day, and see what happens. If they get along side by side for about a week, try the playtime thing again!

 

[Terbear24]

Switch them around as well. Like put Spook in Kiwi's cage and vice versa. And you can move them now to where they can sniff each other thru the cage but maybe not close enought to nip. So you can get them pretty close you want them to be familiar with each others company. So just be patient and give it some time.

 

[SpaceChinnie]

When you switch cages, do you mean that I should leave them switched for a couple hours? Or switch their cages for a whole day/week etc?

 

[arf2184]

Do you want then to live together, or just play together? You may be able to get them to live together. Playtime only together may not work. Some chins are just more aggressive at introductions...not necessarily the dominant one. They just seem to see any new chin as a threat and start attacking. Spooky sounds like she might be one of those chins.

One of my girls (Audrey) has to go for a car ride before intros (10-20 minutes) to stress her out just enough to where she happy to be home and back in a cage that she won't attack her new roomy. Once together they get along great, but they have to stay together. If her mate comes out for playtime without her, Audrey will attack him again when I put him back. She's just weird that way.

Spraying is just a defensive tactic, a way to get the other chin (or person) to leave you alone...who wants to come at you when you're peeing on them (usually aiming for the eyes)?

Some chins will just never get along, but it sounds to me that your girls haven't really given it much chance. If you decide to try the car ride trick, take them both for a ride in separate carriers and make sure they don't get too hot. Then when you get home, put them in a neutral cage and see what happens. Keep in mind, they may never get along.

 

[SpaceChinnie]

I like the car ride idea but it worries me alot about putting them back into a cage (even a neutral one) when they get back. I have a tough time separating them when theyre in the open bouncing around. If they were in a cage together I dont know how i'd be able to seperate them in time if they started to attack eachother. I guess I have to weigh the risk? I really want them to be cage mates, but dont want to force it.

 

[Cuddlebug]

Take it slow. After they are fine with each other while in different cages but close together, try the play time again. Make it shot and try to end it before any fighting begins. The playtimes should get a little longer each time. One they are okay during play time, then you can try placing them in a neutral cage. Do this when you can be at home to watch. Start with short times and work your way up. This can take a long time, but rushing things cn end in disaster.

 

[Hazurdouscowgirl]

Congratulations on your new chin! Introducing two adult chins can be difficult, but it not impossible. Did you quarantine Spooky before placing her cage next to Kiwi's? When I get a new chin, I always quarantine them for a month before starting the introductions. By quarantine, I mean complete isolation from all other chins and animals. Moving to a new home and a new owner is stressful for a chin. There are new smells, sounds, and often a new cage, diet, etc. By quarantining, the chin has time to slowly adjust to it's new environment and owner. This is also to prevent the spread of any infection/illness the new chin might have to your others chins and pets. If you didn't quarantine her it is okay, but it is something you should consider if you decide to get another chin. Everyone else has already given good advice as to how to proceed now. Putting the cages next to each other for a few weeks will allow them to get to know each other at a safe distance. If they are spraying into each other's cages, move them farther apart. After a few weeks of being friendly "next-door neighbors", you can swap cages. I disinfect and the food bowls and water bottles, and give them fresh pellets, water, and hay. Don't change the bedding (as long as it's not too soiled), or wash anything because you want to keep the chin scent in the cage. The object is for Spooky to become familiar with Kiwi's scent, and vice versa. I usually keep them swapped for a week and then switch them back. All during this time, they get separate out-of-cage playtimes. After the swap, I start "co-mingled playtime" (lol). The playpen I have can be folded into two square-shaped play areas with the walls on one side a few inches apart or with a shared wall. The chins can touch/sniff/nibble each other a little but cannot fight. They play like this for a few weeks until they get used to the closer contact. Then I put them both in the same playpen. I sit either inside or outside of the playpen with a binder or clipboard that I can easily put between them if they fight. The chins chase and smell each other (and may even nibble a little), but as long as both chins are okay with it, I leave them be. Squeaking or hissing at each other is a natural part of establishing dominance and as long as there is no fur pulling, tussling, or biting, I let nature take its course. Once they are playing nicely, I start with the neutral cage time. You should use a separate large cage that has been thoroughly cleaned and disinfected. Everything in the cage you be cleaned/washed so the cage is neutral and neither chin's scent is present. I put this cage in a separate room from their other cages and play area. I start with putting them in the neutral cage for an hour a day and increase the time according to their tolerance of each other, but by this time they should be playing in the same area without any squabbles. I always use my best judgement and follow my instinct. Until I am confident that the chins are bonded, I never leave them alone in the same cage or play area. If I am uncertain or hesitant as to whether I should move to the next step, I don't. They may need a few more weeks of one step or another and that is perfectly fine. I take it slow and keep the chins, and myself, safe. Even a chin that you have had for years and is bonded to you, may bite out you of fear. Some chins will get along splendidly and some will not. I have had chins that do not get along with any other chins and must be housed separately, as well as chins that get along with one or several chins. I am just passing along what I have learned from experience and from other members on this forum. This technique has worked for me for and may or may not work for you.

As arf said, it sounds like Spooky is just being defensive and they haven't really had enough time to get to know one another and establish dominance. Were you were carrying them both in your arms when Kiwi sprayed Spooky? If so, you might want to carry them separately until they get along. This will prevent you from getting sprayed and bitten should they begin to fight. If they are still fighting, I wouldn't put them in a neutral cage together. I know I wouldn't be able to separate two chins fighting in a cage, so I don't put them in it until they get along in the playpen. A clipboard or binder may help you separate them when they are out in the open. It's just like a mini pig paddle. You just wedge it between fighting chins or to block a chin making aggressive advances. I have never tried the car ride, but it sounds like a good idea!

There are many experienced chin owners/breeders on here who give wonderful advice, so read and figure out what will work best for you! I wish you the best of luck and look forward to seeing some pictures of your girls!

 

[SpaceChinnie]

Wow thank you for the advice, its great. I think i'm gonna take it slow. I have a hallways that I usually use for playtime and a extra bit of cagewire that i use as a play pen. I found that I can use the cagewire as a divider so that they can see eachother but not touch. I usually sit on one side or the other of the divider while they are out playing, but my body is used as a shield to hide behind. I thought they would go close to eachother to sniff through the wire, but Kiwi just runs behind me and wants to stay there. Oh well, hopefully with time they will want to make contact on their own. I'm keeping my fingers crossed