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C

cintistatern2005

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
524
Location
Independence, Ky
Ok i dont know if some of you have read the emergency thread "Help need advice" but i am posting a new one with an update!!

I took smokey to another vet because the other 2 I have been to seem to know nothing about chins. He started having diarrhea yesterday, I stopped the reglan and cisapride ordered per the 2nd vet. I called the vet to ask for the xrays to take to this vet and they can't find them. Hmmmm, did they really do them, cuz they never showed them to me. So i argued and got a refund, yea whatever. Well went to this other vet and she ordered kaopectate for diarrhea, and she looks in his mouth and says his teeth are fine but see's a big cut on his tongue. So all our problems 's could be steming from this. Cuz he's in pain and obviously isnt eating so he's shutting down. I am still force feeding the critcal care, along with lifeline and probiotics.And he's getting sub-q fluids 2x a day 60cc total a day. Is this ok?? She orderes flagyl also and torbutrol 1/8 of a tab for pain. It took 3 vets and $400 later to see he has a cut on his tongue. Oh one more thing she said was to put a small piece of drywall in his cage for him to chew on to help get the gut better. Ummm ok? Has anyone heard of this? Is it ok? She also wants to put him on some type of steroid for the cut tongue when the gut is back to normal and no diarrhea. I need some help whether all this is ok, im just so aggravated!! Oh and the diarrhea is from a vet ordering the wrong dose of an antibiotic. So im not very happy!!!
 
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Many of these things aren't okay but I am going to let a more experienced user tell you the details. The steroid is a NO. Drywall...pretty sure no. and Kaopectate contains salicylic acid (aspirin), so that is a no.


PLEASE do not give your chin these items until getting more advice on the forum. Wait on anything you can.

I am on vet number 4 trying to find a good chin vet and I have only had my chins 2 months. This fourth one is okay, the previous three were crap, but they didn't suggest anything like those things!
 
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i feel so bad for you and smokey. it doesnt sound like this vet knows what she is talking about. she cant tell that is teeth are fine just by "looking" in his mouth. To even get a good look often the vet needs to administer a small dose of anethesia.
for the cut on his tongue they should have gave you the pink stuff.......sulfatrim suspension. (richie gets .40cc 2x a day) it is a much more mild antibiotic than baytril and it should work on a small cut in the mouth (that is what my chin was prescribed it for).
i am not sure if it is common to prescribe both reglan and cisapride and they are similar as i posted the description in your last thread. but i am not 100% on this. my chin gets just cisapride, 2 - 3 times a day, .15cc
i am glad you got the refund for the xrays! hopefully someone here can direct you to a vet near your home that is more knowledgeable.
for the pain, they should prescribe metacam, that is a fairly common and not too strong pain reliever (think tylenol). My chin gets .20 cc of this one time a day and also gets another pain med 2 times a day for his malo.
i am not sure about the flagyl but i have heard it mentioned. if the torbutrol is the same as turbogesic, my chin was prescribed that and not only didnt it work but a few members on here said it wasnt good for chins because it actually supresses their appetite.
for the Critical care mix i think 60 a day is decent, my chin gets between 120 - 180 a day! but he doesnt eat anything else, no pellets, hay or snacks.
the drywall seems like a ridiculous idea, i would just try some shredded wheat. i dont hink i would use the kaopectate either.
i know there are much more knowledgeable members that can direct you, i am just giving you my opionion and experience. good luck
 
also the torbutrol's side effects are loss of appetite AND diarreah, which smokey already has!


here are the definitions of the drugs that i posted the other day:

Cisapride is used to stimulate the movement of food through the digestive tract. It aids in the treatment of chronic constipation and megacolon (abnormal enlargement of the colon). It may also be used for disorders of the esophagus including reflux and megaesophagus (abnormal enlargement of the esophagus). Cisapride may affect the absorption of other oral drugs from the intestine. Do not use cisapride in animals with an obstruction, perforation, or bleeding of the digestive tract. At high doses, cisapride has caused birth defects in rats. Contact your veterinarian if your pet experiences diarrhea or abdominal cramps while being treated with cisapride

Metoclopramide (reglan) is used to prevent vomiting and esophageal reflux (stomach acid backing up into the esophagus) in many animal species. It may aid in the treatment of hairballs in rabbits. It is also used to prevent side effects, such as vomiting, resulting from chemotherapy. Because metoclopramide increases the movement of stomach and intestinal contents, it can affect the absorption of many oral drugs. Contact your veterinarian if your pet experiences constipation, behavior changes, sleepiness, or staggering while being treated with metoclopramide. NOTE: Since metoclopramide is chemically very similar to PABA, the sunscreen agent, it should not be handled by people allergic to PABA.
 
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ok, i just read thru the other post about the initial injury.
sounds like he got banged up and is in pain. until someone here directs you to a knowledgeable vet that can take x-rays to see if anything is broken or if there is significant damage to his nasal passage, i would do the following:
use the metacam
use the cisapride
use the antibiotic (as long as it is chin approved, cause i missed what he was prescribed)
hand feed him the critical care, as much as you can get into him
try to get him to eat a shredded wheat

you also have to remember all this going to the vet and handling and meds and force feeding him is probably stressing him a bit causing the soft poo.

if he doesnt improve you really need to get an xray to make sure that when he wasnt under your watch he didnt break something. if he was bleeding he obviously was hurt.
he is only 7 months, so not that i would rule out tooth problems, but it is unlikely that they would develop. he may just be in pain from the hit to his face which is why he is grinding and becaues of that the isnt eating, which is causing him not to poop that much and then we mix in all the other stuff that is going on plus reglan and cisapride and now he has soft poo...........if he has some energy and is not just sitting in the corner, i would leave him be until tomrorow and see if someone here can recommend a knowledgeable vet. i would also ask for my money back from the last vet and return the meds and get your money back for them too!

edited to add: are you sure the blood came from his nose?? maybe he just cut his tongue?
 
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DON'T give drywall to chew on. Once upon a time someone mentioned that on CnQ, but it was shot down right quick. What is the purpose to that?

Get some Metacam, it's liquid and it tastes good. You won't have to crush it or do other strange things with it. It's for pain.

If he doesn't have gut issues, there's no point to the gut meds.

NO STEROIDS, especially not for that. Steroids can cause chins to develop stomach ulcers. That'd be just dandy on top of everything else.

Be sure the fluids you are offering are needed. Don't over saturate him.

Keep feeding the critical care. I had a chin here on critical care for a year and a half and nothing shut down. Keep at it. You need a minimum of 50 mL per day just to maintain weight, but I find that's not true. I think it depends on weight. With a 600 gm chin I was feeding him 120 mL of critical care a day and he was very barely inching up in weight. That's a buttload of food. If you're not giving him enough, he's going to continue losing weight. The biggest thing is to get the weight loss to stop, then you need to up the critical care and up it until he has a good weight gain again.

No kaopectate! For pete sake - did this vet get it's license at Toys R Us? Kaolin Pectin is fine, kaopectate is not.
 
How do i know the fluids im giving he needs?? He isn't drinking anything at all!! Can i just ship him to someone and you take him to a GOOD vet i mean cuz ky dont have any apparently!!

The vet said there is something in the dry wall that helps get everything back to normal!!

I honestly dont think his nose was bleeding just he cut his tongue and that was bleeding, but that was 11 days ago wouldnt it have healed by now?
 
I know how you feel. I was sick four weeks out of 6 and my chinnies from a pet store keep having issues. I wanted so badly to either find an great chin vet or a forum member that lives here to foster them until we were all healthy and then they could come home and we could all be happy. Hang in there.

You don't need drywall, even if that would work. You can give him mini shredded wheat or activated charcoal. Give him plenty of hay.

Yes, make sure he drinks. Sub-Q may be needed, but you may be able to syringe feed him some water. Be careful forcing water so he doesn't breath it in instead of swallow. Of course, he may not drink because he has the fluids you gave him.

I wish I could help you with finding a vet. Keep us posted and get some metacam from one of those stupid vets. Usually the dosage is 0.1mL/day unless it is the less concentrated solution, then it is up to 0.3mL. Ask us if you aren't sure. One of my vets told me to give mine a whole mL (3+ times the amount she needed).

We are here for you.


Edit: His tongue might have not healed during that time...when you have a wound in your mouth, healing comes slow.
 
Have you tried these? I don't live up there but these are vets I found in Independence, Ky.

All Creatures Veterinary Clinic
11515 Taylor Mill Road,
Independence, KY 41051
(859) 356-0505

Bach Veterinary Clinic
12109 Madison Pike,
Independence, KY 41051
(859) 356-8883

Bach Gregory L DVM
12109 Madison Pike,
Independence, KY 41051
(859) 356-8883

Hellmann C Jay DVM
11515 Taylor Mill Road,
Independence, KY 41051
(859) 356-0505


Vets in Union, Ky (26 minutes from Independence, Ky)

Bridlewood Farm
11698 USHighway 42,
Union, KY 41091
(859) 485-6000

Vets in Florence, Ky (21 minutes from Independence, Ky)

Angel Animal Hospital
7640 Burlington Pike,
Florence, KY 41042
(859) 371-4929

Angel Thomas DVM
7640 Burlington Pike,
Florence, KY 41042
(859) 371-4929

Florence Animal Clinic
8113 USHighway 42,
Florence, KY 41042
(859) 371-6501

Hungler, Tracey DVM
6052 Ridge Road,
Florence, KY 41042
(859) 647-7387

Vets in Covington, Ky (17 minutes from Independence, Ky)
Collett Mark R DVM
1555 Dixie Highway,
Covington, KY 41011
(859) 581-5200

Ellis Carrie L DVM
1555 Dixie Highway,
Covington, KY 41011
(859) 581-5200


some of those Counties you have to go on the interstate to get too according to the directions I got. So time depends on route you take.

Be back with a few more
 
Vets in Newport, Ky (24 minutes from Independence, Ky)

Greater Cincinnati Veterinary Slty & Emrgncy Services
Ii Beacon Drive,
Newport, KY 41071
(859) 572-0560

Alexandria Pike Animal Hospital PSC
333 Bluegrass Avenue,
Southgate, KY 41071
(859) 781-1800

DOAN Eric J DVN
333 Bluegrass Avenue,
Southgate, KY 41071
(859) 781-1800

Thats what came up for the Newport zip code

Vets in Alexandria, Ky (31 minutes from Independence, Ky)
Campbell County Animal Hospital
7010 Alexandria Pike,
Alexandria, KY 41001
(859) 635-7791

Complementary Veterinary Care
1125 Moreland Road,
Alexandria, KY 41001
(859) 635-7586

Crowley Joseph C DVM
Alexndra Park,
Alexandria, KY 41001
(859) 635-4138

Crowley Mike DVM
Alexndra Park,
Alexandria, KY 41001
(859) 635-4138

Davis Dan DVM
Alexndra Park,
Alexandria, KY 41001
(859) 635-4138

Enzweiler Steve DVM
Alexndra Park,
Alexandria, KY 41001
(859) 635-4138

Garofolo Paul A DVM
Alexndra Park,
Alexandria, KY 41001
(859) 635-4138

Grants Lick Veterinary HOSP
Alexndra Park,
Alexandria, KY 41001
(859) 635-4138

Heineke Barry A DVM
5 Orlando Drive,
Alexandria, KY 41001
(859) 635-3783

Heineke Veterinary Hospital
5 Orlando Drive,
Alexandria, KY 41001
(859) 635-3783

Vets in Cincinnati, Oh (22 minutes from Independence, Ky)
Forest Park Veterinary Clinic
Promenade Shopping Centre,
Cincinnati, OH 45251
(513) 851-6700

Kelley Mary C DVM
5636 Springdale Road,
Cincinnati, OH 45251
(513) 385-8104


I hope one of those vets help. Call around and find ones that know about exotics and especially Chins
 
Yes 2 of those i went to. The others i went to cincinnati. I want someone to refer me to a GOOD CHIN vet. I found the one's i went to by just doing what you did. Also not all those do exotics. Thanks for the help though!!
 
I have metacam from another vet before and was giving it and she told me to use the torbutrol instead. I will discontinue it and just use the metacam. He wont eat the shredded wheats, he wont eat hay, and he's not drinking. Will dyne help get everything back on track? The lady whom sells lifeline sells it.
 
The drywall contains gypsum which is a Hydrated Calcium Sulfate.
Click to expand...

Yes, and a whole lot of other crap as well. If she wants him to have calcium, grind up a Tums and put half of it into his critical care or grind up a small piece of a cuttle bone and add that, if he's not chewing. Just giving him unlimited access to a crappy calcium source is not going to help, and if there's too much calcium, it could cause him to develop stones.
 
he is probably not eating much cause his tongue hurts. i missed what kind of antibiotic he was on?? maybe you should ask the vet to prescribe the trimeth sulfa. every pharmacy has it, it is used for children. i get a HUGE bottle of it from rite aid with a script for 8 dollars. it also has a good taste so he will probably take it.
the dyne is super sweet and it wont get everything back on track. it is a high calorie supplement. i use that when one one chin starts to lose weight but even still, i only give him .2 cc, so like a few drops. i think tunes recommeded to someone else to mix a little dyne with some water and feed it that way. that may also be a good way to get some fluids in him
also what i do when i am worried they are not getting enuf fluid, i put white paper towels on the bottom of their cage to monitor urine output and color. ususally when they are not going much the urine is very dark yellow, almost looks orange. when they are getting a lot of fluids it is almost clear.

The tums idea is a good one too. again you will be mixing with water and getting fluids into him.
There has got to be someone on here that can recommend a good vet!
 
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