This is upsetting.... teeth issues??

[Olallie]

Okay so some of you know I had a bad bout with some Hay with weeds in it. It gave Ricky soft poop. And im pretty sure some minor soft poop to my pair. Also some issues with changing their feed. They didn't want to eat it at first, and they lost some weight. Changed their feed at the beginning of April. New hay beginning of May, soft poop about couple days after that.

Cleared up their softness with activated charcoal, and they seem to be on the right track. I have been weighing them all to make sure they are eating.

Well... Ricky gained at lest 15 grams, on the new food. And Lalita my girl has gained at least 10 grams, both have been seen eating the new food. Which is great!

Not so great is Rosco is still losing weight. Even though i've seen him eat the pellets. Well I put him in solitary a couple of days ago, and made him a vet appt for this friday. I've been measuring the pellets in his bowl, and giving him free access to hay. ( I thought maybe the girl has been pushing away from the food) However this morning I looked at the food bowl and hay and barely anything has been touched. T_T. I have been giving him straight life line for the past couple of days but not so much as to make him full so he wont eat. Also this morning his eyes were watery, the fur around his eyes were wet. :cry3:
what do I do? I hope its a spur and nothing serious. I got him xrays a few months ago, and there was no significant tooth problems. How can he have gotten this bad so fast? His normal weight is 750g, he's down to 658g, almost 100g in the last two-three months. It has to be a tooth issue.

Any suggestions on what the vet should look for? any advice for Rosco? Anything i should be doing to keep his weight up for now? (how much life line should I be giving? will probably get critical care from the vet this week)

Thanks guys

 

[ticklechin]

He should have a oral exam under gas to rule out tooth issues. Teeth can splinter, things can get stuck under the gum, teeth can fall out, chin could be a wuss and have a small point that produces exaggerated symptoms, perio pockets can become inflamed, those are reasons teeth issues can come on fast. Can you run your finger across his lips, also pull down the lower lip and look for any moisture on the teeth and gums? If there is any it points to teeth. Eye infections can cause weight loss also but I would rule out teeth first.

When I feed lifeline as a food replacment I feed 45ml a day, but I only use it when the chin will absolutely refuse CC and it means no food for it unless fed lifeline. CC I will feed upward of 100ml a day and still the chin may lose weight. I do find the lifeline keeps weight more steady but poo quality is not as good.

 

[Olallie]

I felt Rosco's mouth area and its dry as far as I can tell. I can't really get a good look at his gums tho, poor thing doesnt really want me fiddling anywhere around his head.

I'll have to ask the vet to put him under and give him a thorough look. Thanks for responding! His poo have gotten smaller over the few days i've been feeding him life line, but that's the only difference i've seen so far, and he's barely eating any hay and pellets.

 

[ticklechin]

I would give him two meals of lifeline a day, 15ml in the Am and 15ml in the Pm, it won't fill him up but supplement what he is eating. Keep a eye on the weight, you want to keep it steady so add more handfeedings if he slips. If you can get ahold of CC it will help the poo department out.

 

[Olallie]

Okay so I took him to the vets on friday, and the doctor poked around in his mouth, and found nothing suspicious. Felt his abdomen up, nothing there no impactions. Or anything. So we are going to drop him off there tomorrow for anesthesia, so they can take a look at the very back molars, and Im going to ask them to take some blood too. And probably get a set of x rays done. I feel so bad for him, today i was feeding him life line breakfast and he didn't want to eat as much as he normally would. I snapped this video of him trying to eat hay this morning. Watch at 8sec-12sec, his paw he just chucks it. His eyes were worse today too, very wet around his eyes.

 

[ticklechin]

He looks like he has something going on with the molars, it appears he is squinting after he drops the hay around the 10sec mark. Looking at him I would not say malo, I would say he has some tooth points that may be chaffing on his tongue or cheek, causing the wet eyes and the slow down in eating the lifeline. Malo chins rarely will pick up a piece of hay let alone try to eat it, they can, but they would also do the mouth swipe and choking motion along with the discard.

 

[Olallie]

Thanks for watching my vid. He kept doing that for a couple mins after still.

I will definitely let the vet know to check for that tomorrow. It does seem like he's trying to eat but after awhile he just wont, it seems like its hurting him.

 

[ticklechin]

What I have found it chins with points will try to eat on their own-the pain is short lived so they will try again and again. Malo chins won't hardly try at all since there is pain all the time.

 

[Olallie]

So Rosco went to the vet. Took xrays, took blood, looked at his back molars.

related to teeth- no spurs no irritation in his mouth, I'll post xrays later, the vet said his teeth might not be straight.

Gas related- xrays show lots of gas. in his stomach in his colon, in his secum everywhere, said his belly is a little distended. So they injected in him some Metaproclamide, sending him home with some Cisipride. They think he might have a hairball or something that is making him feel full and he's not eating, or its absorbing what he is eating and his intestines might not be moving much, i think they also gave him an antibiotic but im not sure.

Okay so now what do I do?

 

[Olallie]

oops missed editing, the doctor also recommended i get OVOL, gas drops, they are mint flavour is that okay?

 

[ticklechin]

They should have been able to see if there was a obstruction in the digestive tract with the x-ray. The treatment for a obstruction and slow down of the digestive tract and gas are different, Gas you want to feed many small meals, do the massage of the tummy-starting from the top of the tummy, slow circular motions down to the anus every couple of hours, after the massage he needs to run around to get things moving for a bit, simethicone gas drops-that is the main ingrediant you are looking for, a obstruction the chin needs subQ fluids, the massage, no motility drugs and run around time. The vet really needs to diagnose the chin properly-the teeth being " maybe not straight" ads to the problem, the vet really needs to diagnose that also.

Edited to ad the OVOL is simethicone, its safe to use.

 

[Olallie]

Rosco's xrays
First taken about 4 months ago

Today's xrays

 

[ticklechin]

He really should have had skull x-rays, not sure how the vet was able to see anything in the original one. The following ones I do see elongation of the molars with curvature of the upper and lower rear molars. Not the worse elongation I seen, but as far as seeing the actual teeth the x-rays are poor at that so points or malo can not be seen.

 

[Olallie]

I'll probably ask for more x-rays later on. I think I want the doctor to try to level out his teeth, as you can see they are over lapping and wavy. The first x-ray was the only one they gave me, they took more but i dont have them. These new ones tho... they show how much problems he's having in his stommach.

But i'll focus on getting his stomach & colon/secum cleared of gas and what ever that is in his stommach first.

he does not want anything to do with the CC i got him, I mixed it with life line, and pumpkin and he still wont eat it. My other chin will eat it like there's nothing better in the whole world.
I guess i'll just have to go back to giving him life line straight.

This week will be take him out every 2 hours for a 10 min run, try to feed, and water. three times daily cisapride, and at every chance simethicone. Warm rice sock compress in the morning and evening followed by a 5 min tummy massage (only cuz he squirms so much) I wish i could do it longer but he's just not having it!
Should I be doing any of this more often?

How long do you think it will take him to get better, I can feel the popping of the gas in his tummy area. Poor thing is so miserable. How can i speed up the process of getting rid of the hair ball/ food ball in his stommach? How do I force feed water? (he fights me so much when i try to burrito him)

 

[Olallie]

EDIT: Its .07ml of cisapride three times daily.

 

[mishellyshel]

you can see when the gas starts passing thru their stool. it looks like little clear bubbles.

are you using the regular CC or the apple/bananna?? my chins HATE the regular and dislike the apple bannana you can also try Essentials for LIfe at: www.fuzzieskingdom.com. its another type of product for herbavores.

another option while waiting for the either product to arrive is to crush up his pellets in a coffee grinder, mix with filtered water and add a small amount of plain canned pumpkin or baby food squash to make it a smoother consistency. you can even add the lifeline to that if he likes the flavor. make is liquid enough to fit thru syringe but not too watery or it wont stay in his mouth.
try to get all the air out of the syringe so you dont have him ingesting more air.
i usually do a small 1 cc syringe of lifeline first, than gas drops & meds, and then my pellet mix. if my chins isnt eating any pellets than i try to get between 60 - 100 cc's of mix into them throughout the day.
you need to make sure he is eating to get his gut moving and get that gas out of there.
cisapride is a good medication, that will help.
sounds like everything you are doing is right. good luck.

 

[Olallie]

So I ordered the Essentials for life, omg that was so easy, I love that site. Who organizes it?

I have apple banana flavour Critical Care. He wants to eat it but he's like... "nuuuu nuuuu i don't think so....." *squints his eyes*

 

[mishellyshel]

Tanya runs fuzzieskingdom..........she is a member and very knowledgeable, especially about herbal remedies. She has taught me a lot.

while you are waiting, try the crushed pellets and see if he fights you on that? maybe the scent of the CC is what is turning him off. Every once in a while I will try and sneak in a little CC and as soon as my chin smells it on the syringe he will turn his head and push my hand away.
i dont even wrap him or anything. he just sits on my lap and willingly eats his crushed pellet mix, but the second i try to give him CC he knows. its actually kinda funny that he is so smart.
if you dont want to buy a whole can of the plain pumpkin i often use the baby food squash, stage 1 or 2. just mix in a little to start, it improves both the flavor & consistency.

 

[Olallie]

I opened a giant can of pumpkin we had in the cupboard. LOL I have it in two containers in the fridge. My family is like what the **** is she doing with all that mushy goopy stuff? haha
Yea im definately going to try the crushed pellets, its just that before he started this whole episode I changed his pellets (iono if that's the culprit) I can't get his old food anymore. So I'm going to try it and see what he thinks.

 

[mishellyshel]

freeze the pumpkin.........it gets funky in the fridge.

when i make my pellet mix i actually combine 3 different pellets! he cant really tell the dif, but i use what all my chins get which is PRSC, a little Mazuri that I have left and a some Shoots that I ordered. I try & give some different foods to one or two of my boys because they are not big eaters, so i put smaller bowls in different locations in their cages. someone here recommended it, i think the term is forage? where they will pick in different areas. it actually worked for 2 of my chins. they were not eating their pellets and when i moved the bowl they started to eat.
so basically i am just saying..........use what you got! sorry i tend to ramble.