teeth issues?

[fluffycupcake]

Okay, so I have a male chinchilla. He is probably at least 10 years old.
The past couple of days I noticed he is leaving some crumbs behind when he is eating. Like part of a pellet and some dust crumbs. Not in his bowl but beside it. He eats out of a ceramic cat food type bowl. Earlier this morning my boyfriend had me look at him because his fur is sort of funny looking under his chin. Its not wet.... but, I think that may be from him taking care of himself, if you know what I mean. When I went to check on him he had his business hanging out. :neener:


Anyways, while he was eating.. he kept wiping at his face with one paw.
I don't know if it would be possible that he was taking care of a hair ring and it got caught in his mouth and that is what is causing him to swipe at his mouth?
Or if this is something else going on?


Right now he is resting in his tube.
He always has access to hay & he has a wooden house and a few wooden shelves to chew on. He has never really been a big chewer though. He always devours his hay. But, he never really has been too destructive in chewing on his house or shelf.


Should I go ahead and plan on taking him in for some xrays? Or should I just sort of wait it out and check on him?

 

[ticklechin]

First, have you checked for a hair ring by removing the penis from the sheath? If not, you need to do a hair ring check-here is my video click it to start.




Next, you are stating three malo symptoms-the mouth swipe, the damp looking chin and the penis that does not retract, that combined with a lazy chewer would put me on alert-I would weigh this chin weekly-if you don't have a scale you can get a gram scale at walmart in the kitchen department, if the weight is steady weekly, then the teeth are not a issue in most cases, if you have a weekly loss chin needs a vet. To be honest, if you can get this chin to a vet it may not be a bad idea now, something about this is twanging my radar.

 

[fluffycupcake]

Well, his penis wasn't out more than just a moment really. We kind of surprised him I guess when he was messing with it. Its not hanging out or anything like that. I checked him and its back where it should be. I just sort of assumed he was checking his business out to make sure it was all in line.


I'm going to take him to a vet on Thursday, I'm going to get some xrays done and see whats going on. I would go sooner, but Thursday is my next day off. Unless of course something major changes between then and now. Keeping an eye on him.. but, trying not to be too bothersome to him. Unless you all think I should try to get him in sooner? I have no problem calling in to work to take my fur baby to the vet.

When he eats, that is really the only time I've noticed him messing with his mouth. He doesn't seem to do it very much when he is just setting, or when he is out for playtime. He also was scratching at his mouth, with his back foot. Well, not really at his mouth... more like at the side of his face? I don't know if that has any significance or not. And it seems to be his right side that is bothering him. Or that is the side I always see him swipe at, and I'm pretty sure that is the side he was scratching at as well.

He is still drinking & doesn't seem to be having issues with that, and he ate all the alfalfa hay we put in there for him last night. He didn't eat too much of the timothy hay though. I don't know if he just prefers the alfalfa to the other or what.


I had my boyfriend get a video of him eating. I'm trying to get it uploaded but I can't figure out how. He recorded it on his phone. So, I'm still working on that.




I do have some questions about the malo though, I really don't understand it all. I've tried to do some research and its all sort of confusing. Like some of it sounds really bad and some of it its like you can get some dental work done and then no longer have issues, and then others its a long drawn out process that doesn't end well.
Like, what am I looking at when we go to the vet? What should I expect, I guess is what I'm wanting to know.
And what is the outlook on this sort of thing? Researching the malo, I've been crying my eyes out. I just can't even think about something bad happening to my little boy.

 

[obcsed]

Thursday will be fine for the vet visit. It does sound like something is bothering him in his mouth. Teeth problems come in a wide range. The only way to know what is going on is X-rays and a good examination under sedation. Once you have the information, we can give you some idea what to expect.

 

[fluffycupcake]

Alrighty, so yesterday I called to make an appointment at the vet.
And I talked to the receptionist and then another lady called me back and was talking to me about my chinchilla and asking me questions and such.
And she was told me she could fit me in Thursday.. but, if I wanted to come in today.. she could get me in as well. She was just concerned with things getting worse and him possibly stopping eating and then there would be bigger issues.
So, naturally I called into work today to take my baby to the vet.

Long story short...
They talked to me about what they could do to find stuff out. I asked about xrays and they said that a CT scan would show more info, just in case it was something else going on.
I told them to go ahead and do a CT scan to see what was going on.



Anyways, here is what my little paper says. They went over it all with me of course.. but, its so much info. I figure I'll just type it off of there.

They found ulcerations in his mouth and some sharp points on his teeth.

They found an infection around the base of his right mandibular teeth.

His oral exam showed marked oral ulceration from the points on his teeth, and abnormal wear along all his cheek teeth. They trimmed his teeth, but because none were loose or had evidence of pus communicating with the oral cavity, we did not recommend removal of any teeth.

Stained both of his eyes and found minor uptake along his right cornea, and scarring along his right and left cornea. We found that the left eye does have some mild scarring, but it does not appear to be ulcerated. The right eye has more significant scarring and it may have a superficial ulcer as well. We want to make sure that this does not get worse, and so will be sending some medicine home. These scars are likely due to abrasions, either from bedding, scratching himself, or another object rubbing his eye.



They gave me these meds :
Metronidazole 0.04 ML twice a day.
Trimethoprim Sulfa 0.25 ML twice a day.
Meloxicam 1.5 ML twice a day.
Sucralfate - this one is a pill that is quatered I have to make into a slurry to give twice a day.
Ciprofloxacin - eye drops, one in each eye twice a day.



Supposed to go back in a week to check on the eye.
And in a month to check his teeth/infection.

 

[ticklechin]

I have to say I am impressed with your vet 100%, the choice of meds proves to me they know what they are doing-most vets would throw baytril at this, this vet understands that in the case of a dental abscess in chinchillas you need to use a aerobic and anaerobic antibiotic together, flagyl (metronidazole) is the first choice to use along with a aerobic like the trimethsulfa. The used the sucralfate due to the fact that metecam (meloxicam) can cause digestive ulcers, another fact that vets don't know or use, they RXed a pain med, another thing vets don't do since they did not get the memo that chin teeth are innervated and may be sensitive after a trimming. You are in good hands! Oh and the CT scan, BRAVO!!!!!

 

[fluffycupcake]

I'm so glad to hear that! I really like the vets office. Its not really one set vet.
I take him to the University of Tennessee, its about a 2 hour drive from me. They have a vet clinic/school thing. Its awesome. The treatment they give is amazing. They always make me feel like they really CARE about your pet. And when they answer your questions they do so thoroughly and don't make you feel silly.


I'm really glad we decided to do the CT scan today, they said that if we hadn't then we probably wouldn't have caught the infection at his tooth.



Also, to toss in some more info they gave me, he told me to cut down on his pellets.. maybe to give a handful a day. But, to really up his hay consumption and to be sure it was timothy or grass hay. I had been giving him some alfalfa hay recently, trying to help him up his weight. He told me that those 2 types of hay are better for wearing down teeth.

Its also on this sheet that I can give him some leafy greens, or mustard or collard greens as an occasional treat.



I went out tonight and bought a scale. I hope its the right one. I tried to make sure I got a gram scale.. but, it was hard to tell. It says so in the instruction manual. But, I haven't gotten it out to see yet.


How should he be acting now?
The vet told me he would probably be really sleepy for the rest of today.
He keeps pawing at his mouth a little though. Is that normal?

And how should I expect him to act in the following days?

He looks so pitiful now. It makes me so sad to see him like this.

Tomorrow morning will be our first attempt at giving meds. I watched the girl at the vet's office do it, and of course she made it seem super easy. I hope it is. He is a pretty good little boy. So, I'm really hoping he will be cooperative with me so we can get his medicine in him to get him feeling better.

 

[ticklechin]

First time filing the chin can be grumpy and quiet for a week or more, eating on his own can start right away or take a week or so, you may need to hand feed him critical care if he does not eat. The mouth swiping after a filing is normal for a couple of days, the mouth has those open wounds on the soft tissue from the points-like a pizza burn for humans.

 

[fluffycupcake]

Alrighty. Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:

He still seems like he doesn't feel that great. But, I just wanted to be sure everything is normal. I try to check on him.. but, I don't wanna keep bothering him. Every time I go in there, he looks at me like what do you want now? Haha.


We got the meds in pretty great this morning. He didn't wanna come to me at first.. I guess he thought I might be taking him back to the scary place again.
But, once I got him out and wrapped up in a towel, he kind of freaked when I flipped him on his back... but, he settled down once I talked to him and gave him a few scritches. He took the meds like a champ! No fighting or anything. He just drank it right down! I was so excited. I tried to keep calm, because I know he can sense when I'm stressed. So, I had a pep talk with myself and with him before we started and it went good!

I feel like its really not a lot of medicine. Like its a lot of different kinds, but its such tiny amounts. They do it off of weight, I assume? And he was pretty tiny. He has always been a little thing. He has always looked like a runt. He only weighed 395 g at the vet. I haven't weighed him yet. I'll probably wait til maybe Friday to weigh him. I might try and do it Thursday, just trying to let him rest some. I guess I'm just paranoid about the medicine because it just doesn't seem like hardly anything!


I saw him at his pellet bowl last night eating. Still eating pretty slow, and I think he dropped a few pieces. But, I was just glad to see him trying to eat. And he was at his bowl for a good 5 minutes at least. I left him alone after that.


He hasn't touched his hay yet, or at least not that I can tell. Should I try and get something different? Besides the timothy and see if he will eat that? Or just sort of wait and see?



Also, is the leafy greens okay now? I don't wanna give him too much or cause any other issues. Is there a certain kind or amount?

 

[ticklechin]

He liked the alfalfa, give him that along with the timothy, no greens. Greens seem to be a new thing that vets like to have people give, my vet included but I just don't jones with that, the only greens mine get is wheat grass-they eat loads of it with no issues.

Any time a dental chin is at the food bowl is a very good day, even if its just a pellet or two!

 

[chins4life089]

I am not a vet but what I know is never give a chinchilla fresh vegetables because it can cause bloat and that can kill, save the vegetables for guinea pig and also with all those meds it could cause all the flora in his intestines to die so u can feed him if he is not eating give him a little bit a yogurt and if he is losing weight and not eating I would try force feeding critical care just keep us updated on how he is please

 

[obcsed]

What Dawn said. My vet tries to get me to feed greens too but I worry about upsetting things. When my dental chins get worked on, I offer them several different things to eat. Usually they find something in the mix they will eat. They get regular pellets and also puffed pellets. For the puffed pellets, I spread some of the regular pellets on a cookie sheet, spray them with water, let them puff up a little bit and then throw them in a 250 degree oven to dry them. Usually only takes 10-20 minutes to dry them. My guys can usually handle the puffed ones better than the regular for a few days. For hay, I offer alfalfa, orchard grass and timothy hay. They usually start out on the alfalfa, then soon dig into the orchard grass and finally will start eating the hay again. It could take several days to get him eating normally. Antibiotics can also effect their appetite so it might be he won't eat really well until he is done with those.

 

[fluffycupcake]

Thanks so much for the info!

He still doesn't seem like he feels so great. But, it does seem like he is perking up a bit.
I don't think he has touched the timothy at all. So, I'm hoping to make it to the pet store tonight before it closes to get some different kinds of hay.

I like the idea of the puffed pellets. I might have to give those a try.



Should I be giving him anything to help with the antibiotics? The vet wants me to give both antibiotics for a month. I'm going to ask about that when we go back. But, I've read that the antibiotics can mess up their bellies.
We have an appointment for next Thursday to check his eyes. They look to be getting better to me, so hopefully that goes well.


I also feel super bad because apparently I mis-read the syringe to give his meds, yesterday morning, I hardly gave him anything at all. I feel so dumb. So, he actually got the right amount of medicine in him last night and this morning.
So, I'm hoping now that he will perk up a bit more. I can't believe I done that. Yesterday when I came home for lunch he was drooling a lot and just looked like he felt pretty bad. I freaked out a little bit, and then when I was going back over my papers, I noticed my errors. So, yeah.. I feel pretty dumb. Because if I had paid attention to what I was doing then he would have gotten the right amount of medicine. Ugh!


Anyways,
Would it be okay to let him have a dust bath tonight? Even with giving him eye drops?

I'll give him a dust bath before we do the drops. That way the dust won't stick to his fur at his eyes. If thats okay?



He also seems to be digging a lot more? Like the past 2 days I've noticed that.

 

[ticklechin]

When I gave dental chins with eye issues baths, they got fresh dust, yeah there is a chance of a issue but it makes them feel so much better I just went with it and the dozens of times I dealt with it there were no issues.

Antibiotics for a month for a dental infection is common, it can go on for a few months, so for the gut you can add a probiotic if there is a issue. And you may need to hand feed if you are not already, make sure you have critical care on hand, chin would need upwards of 60-100ml a day, along with simethicone for gas. Recovery will always feel like one step forward, two steps back, and it can take awhile. Make sure you watch the weight, he is already light so any loss is a concern, do not hesitate to step in and hand feed or supplement what he is eating. Lifeline by chocolate chinchillas is also a good idea, most chins did it, its alfalfa based to help with weight and has probiotics in it already, 20ml or so a day is a good supplement and if the chin really digs it sprinkle it on the pellets. Mix with water to a paste and syringe feed it.

http://chocolatechinchillas.com/id6.html

 

[fluffycupcake]

So, do I do the Critical Care & the Lifeline?

And would I break up the feedings of the CC?


I haven't tried to weight him yet. But, I'll probably give it a go tonight.

 

[ticklechin]

I am not a vet but what I know is never give a chinchilla fresh vegetables because it can cause bloat and that can kill, save the vegetables for guinea pig and also with all those meds it could cause all the flora in his intestines to die so u can feed him if he is not eating give him a little bit a yogurt and if he is losing weight and not eating I would try force feeding critical care just keep us updated on how he is please

No yogurt for chins please!

 

[ticklechin]

So, do I do the Critical Care & the Lifeline?

And would I break up the feedings of the CC?


I haven't tried to weight him yet. But, I'll probably give it a go tonight.

You can mix them 50/50, go to petsmart or petco in the bird health section and they sell 10ml plastic feeding syringes, to hand feed full time you need to get around 4-6 of these in him a day-he is only 400gms so 40ml will do, break it up into several feedings-most chins can eat 10ml at a sitting, some only do 5ml. Mix the critical care and lifeline together (you should be able to get the critical care at the vet) until its a milkshake consitancy-practice squirting it out of the syringe first-only a little bit per mouth full . You can try offering it to him inside the cage-I put a bit on the end of a apple stick and let them smell it and taste it.

Hand feeding videos I made

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICgcpTg06kU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGryprGknXY

 

[fluffycupcake]

http://www.amazon.com/Oxbow-Critica...&qid=1402614318&sr=8-2&keywords=critical+care

Thats the Critical Care, right?


Does it matter about the feeding schedule..?

Like I mean, as of now I'm doing meds at around 7-730 am in the morning & then 6-7pm at night.

Should I space out the food and medicine time? Is it okay to give the medicine with the CC and the Lifeline? Not mixing them together of course... I just don't want one to cancel out the other, if that makes sense?


I don't know if any of the vets around here have it. And I can't drive to the vet that saw him. I wonder if the emergency vet near me has any. I might call and see if they have any. If I can't track any down, I guess I'll order some and try to get it here with fast shipping.


About how long does it usually take to get the Lifeline after you've ordered it?


Sorry for so many questions. I'm just really paranoid now.



I'm also thinking about ordering some toys, would some chew stuff be okay for him to have now? Or when we get them anyways. Haha.

 

[fluffycupcake]

So, we just got done with medicine time a little bit ago.



I let him out for a run around the kitchen and he kept messing with his penis.
Its hanging out about an inch or so. Possibly more.


I put him back in his cage and just checked him again, still out.



He is setting all hunched up, and is grinding his teeth.
Or what sounds like teeth grinding to me.

 

[obcsed]

Sounds like he is in pain. Give the pain med some time to kick in. If you can't get the Critical Care right away, try grinding up his pellets and make a mash out of it then syringe feed him. He really needs to have something in his stomach to help keep the irritation from the meds down. Get some baby gas drops from any drug store to help with any gas he might be developing.