Procaine benzylpenicillin

[Luciole]

My chinchilla had dental surgery 2 weeks ago (Jan 14) but it was performed by a different vet because Dr. Mans (who usually sees him) was not on clinic that week. I was instructed to give him subQ injections of procaine benzylpenicillin once every 5 days which caught me off guard because he has always been prescribed oral baytril after surgery in the past.

He has been experiencing the usual post surgery loss of appetite, but it isn't improving and got worse after his injection last Sunday night. I brought him to the clinic this morning; Dr. Mans examined him and recommended that he stay overnight. He said that Arthur has had single penicillin injections after a couple of his surgeries, so he doesn't think this is the problem. I'm not sure I agree. After going through Arthur's med records, I found notes that he was given penicillin injections, but the type of penicillin wasn't specified.

Specifically, what is the concern with procaine penicillin? After searching the vetmed literature, all I could find was that some species are "sensitive" to it.

 

[ticklechin]

NO NO NO NOOOOOO Pro-pen, the vet is a idiot, never ever give a chin procaine penicillin, dude/chick should have known that, its chinchilla 101.

From Dr. Koch, chinchilla vet to the ranchers.

Antibiotics...should they be given orally for respiratory ailments? Antibiotics injected in the hind leg muscle are a far superior treatment for respiratory conditions. For intestinal problems oral antibiotics are adequate. NEVER give procaine penicillin.

http://www.shootschinchilla.com/general-animal-husbandry.htm

 

[Luciole]

Thank you Dawn.

Did Dr Koch ever explain why not to give it? Procaine PenG has been used a lot in chinchilla studies on otitis media --maybe that is how it was discovered that some chinchillas can be sensitive to it. I just can't find anything that explicitly defines "sensitivity" or explains why vets advise against it.

For the record, I do suspect that the procaine is what is prolonging his recovery. I just want to understand why so we can develop a strategy to reverse the adverse effects. The more info the better.


One of the techs just told me (after I wrote my original post) that procaine benzylpenicillin is their standard penicillin, so Arthur has been administered it in the past without problem. However, this is the first time that he has been prescribed 5 doses spaced out over 20 days.

Dr Christoph Mans (from the UW-Madison Vet School Teaching Hospital) is a wonderful and very experienced chin vet and I have a lot of confidence in him, but I will push this procaine issue in our phone conference later this evening.

 

[ticklechin]

I have been told that is causes kidney issues, which is what this statement from the contraindications shows.

Hypersensitivity to penicillins, aminoglycosides and/or procaine, cause renal dysfunctions, disturbances of auditory or vestibular organ, in use in small herbivores like rabbits, chinchillas and guinea pigs, prolonged*use in pregnant
animals because of the risk of ototoxicity to the foetus

http://www.westernunity.com/agrar/product.php?id_product=35

I would guess it is being reintroduced due to the over use of baytril and its non-effects on bacteria? If Stackie is around I hope she pipes in, she could ask at her practice what is acceptable today.

 

[Luciole]

Thanks so much, Dawn.:thumbsup:

On this occasion, penicillin was prescribed because one of his molars had become loose and supposedly penicillin can assist with re-stabilizing the tooth (I'm not sure how but maybe through anti-inflammatory effects???)

Dr Mans hasn't called me back yet with the urinalysis results, but I'll post when he does.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

PenG is indicated for abscesses in chinchillas and rabbits (as an injection, NOT orally). It is often effective for the anaerobes that set up shop. Baytril is not effective against anaerobes.

Are you hand feeding him with critical care?

 

[Luciole]

Sycamore,

Yes. I'm giving him critical care everyday. I tried to scale back so he would eat on his own, but that isn't happening. He hadn't even touched his treats this morning. He also struggles more than he has in the past when I feed him.

He is staying overnight at the clinic and they are syringe feeding him CC there.

Dawn: Dr Mans hasn't called back yet, there was some confusion over whether I'd be updated this evening or Wednesday morning. I wish I knew the urinalysis results, however. One of the things they were looking for was fatty liver disease.

 

[ticklechin]

For dental abscesses flagyl is a better choice used with baytril. Flagyl is "safe" for chinchillas and works on anaerobic bacteria. Its what I use when dealing with that issue. The problem with dental abscesses in chinchillas, if you don't remove the source of infection, the problem will never go away, no matter what antibiotic is used and the source is usually a tooth.

Flagyl is a broad spectrum, works both on gram neg and gram pos anaerobic bacteria where pen-g is gram pos. Me, I like that flagyl covers more bases, since more that likely a "sample" won't be tested.

 

[Luciole]

Update: Arthur has fatty liver disease. I have been instructed to feed him Critical Care 3 to 4 times a day for the next several weeks until his liver heals. His liver will be tested again in about a week.

I was able to get ~22 cc of Critical Care in him since I brought him home at this evening.

 

[ticklechin]

You might consider this to help in healing

http://www.fuzzieskingdom.com/herbs/remedies/liver-supplement-chinchilla-rabbit.html