need some advice for my sick little girl

[chinquillurker]

hi all.

i currently have a four-year-old girl, "itchy", who unfortunately has cancer. the mass is in her mouth, but affects one eye. :tantrum:

she is on soft foods, pain meds, eye meds, and palliative care. and lotsa spoiling, of course! :hug2:

i have been reading good things about salmon oil and l-lysine for cancer, and also acidophilus for diarrhea.

the problem is, my vet knows nil about herbal supplementation (not the greatest vet, but she is the only one in my area who treats these little quilled babies).

i really want to give these to itchy if it can help her, but i do not want her to get too much. so if anybody can let me know exactly how much i should give her, and how often, i would really appreciate it.

thanx in advance for any and all replies.

 

[Kalandra]

Unless you have a scale that can measure in mg, you will be using your best guess for measurement, aka a sprinkle or hefty sprinkle. I have never found a recommended dosage in hedgehogs, and the best information I can find is a dosage recommendation for dogs and cats. When my vet recommended these items to me, he stated give her a sprinkle.

This post is going to be long, I apologize. Cancer is a topic I am almost constantly researching and reading about. I tend to get a bit long winded when someone asks about it.

In my own research, I have found several recommendations for dosage in dogs. I don't think the vets really know how much to give, so we are left to make our own decisions. I can tell you what I have found though.

I'd like to recommend another amino in addition to the lysine, l-arginine as part of her palliative care. Arginine, it combined with omega 3 has shown to have some great benefits in slowing some cancers down. Discuss adding it with your vet, or do some research on it with the type of cancer your hedgehog has.

If you want to measure out dosage, you can find a milligram scale on Amazon for just under $30. I bought one recently as I like to be consistent in dosage and well, I found some numbers for these items in regards to dog cancer. I was amazed when I measured out the first doses as the sprinkle "measurements" I was using actually were very close to the recommendations I found for dogs.

I did google book searches, searches on the National Medical Publication library, and just general google searches looking at dog/cat forums and various other places to see what people were doing. This is what I have written down.

Arginine - 647 mg/100 kcal of food. Another recommended between 500-3000 mg split 2xs daily for a dog. I guessed that the range was based on sizes of dogs.

Fish Oil - 1500 mg/100 kcal of food. Most say you really cannot give enough fish oil to make up this amount. I give about 5 drops of oil daily to Rose. I puncture a hole in a fish oil capsule and squeeze tiny drops out. Rose is 850 grams so she's a big hedgehog. Start out with a much smaller dose of this as the oil will cause some loose stools initially. I stuck with this amount as it is the amount that doesn't cause loose stool and I have noticed a major improvement in Rose's quill coat & skin. In my researching I have read that salmon oil seems to be the highest in omega 3s and the preferred type. Its a form of omega that the body can more readily use. Flaxseed is ALA omega 3 which the body must convert before using it.

Lysine. This one is difficult. I haven't been able to find much about dosing for cancer, most of the information that comes up is for feline herpes. The one site I found gave the same dosage as the arginine though.

You may also want to add acidolphilus to her diet. Acidolphilus can help aid digestion.

If you find anything different, I'd love to hear it. Rose has been on these since January. Rose was first diagnosed with mast cell cancer in August 2010 and had 2 surgeries to remove 2 tumors. Her 3rd tumor showed up in March and was inoperable. It has grown very slowly though and she is still doing very well. As I mentioned her quill coat & skin look the best they ever have on this stuff. Rose also takes IP6, cartilage supplements & is on a high protein/low carbohydrate diet (ask your vet about this diet change too). Doc has us reducing carbs. There is research out there that shows carbs can feed cancer/aka allow it to grow faster.

 

[chinquillurker]

thank you

ty for the reply, kalandra.

your post was not too long for me at all. i like to get all the info i can about my babies, especially when they are ill.

since you seem to be very knowledgeable about this stuff, i have some more questions for ya. :thumbsup:

now, i know what "mg" means, but what is a "kcal"? am i an idiot, or what?

also, where could i find the arginine cheap? it is like $35 a bottle here. i will spend that if i have to, but i was hoping to get it cheaper.

is it common for these little ones to get cancer at four years of age? is four really that old for a hedgie?

thanx again for your help.

 

[Things for Wings]

I am so sorry to read that your little chin has cancer

There is a very highly recommended vet that specializes in that field. If you would like I can get you his name and number. He does phone consults and will talk with your own vet.

Please PM me for info if you are interested.

 

[Kalandra]

Cancer in pets is a topic that I read a lot about. In fact I'm pretty obsessed with it. Of my hedgehog angels, only 1 has passed on from something other than cancer. I have had pathologies run on most to verify what we were dealing with. I try to keep on top of various treatments, both conventional and non-traditional. I have tried several types of non-traditional approaches, and have explored conventional approaches too. But I am just an owner, and far from being an expert. Anything I say, I recommend discussing with your veterinarian and researching for yourself. I read because I want options for my quilled babies. I share, because no hedgehog caretaker should be alone in this, and it may help some other quill kid.

Kcal is kilacalorie. Just a measurement of calories. You can usually find how many kcal a food has in it on their labels. Some give it to you in kcal/lb, kcal/cup or kcal/kg. I try to translate them all to kg since I can easily compare them. If you cannot find a kcal/kg, I may have it. I am a data freak and have a spreadsheet that I have been collecting this type of information in for the more common foods we use in hedgehogs (also for some of the less common cat foods). I use it to help figure out how much food to feed Rose and the amount of carbs I am feeding her since she is supposed to be on a low carb diet.

Arginine - I paid about $16 for mine locally. You can find it on Amazon for less though. I got the capsules as I can open a capsule and reclose it daily. You won't need many as 1 500 mg capsule lasts for many days.

Cancer is really common in hedgehogs. I start to watch closely for any type of lump, bump or oddness after they turn 3.5 years. The majority of hedgehogs I have cared for have gotten cancer around this age. And most of my hedgehogs have passed on between their 4th to 5th year. There are hedgehogs that live a lot longer, but sadly, my experience has been 4 is a tough year.

Did your doc tell you what type of cancer she has? Squamous cell carcinoma by chance? If so, ask your vet about piroxicam. When smhufflepuff's Satin was diagnosed with SCC we found some articles about piroxicam being beneficial in other animals and also found it being used for a couple of hedgehogs.

 

[chinquillurker]

thank you

all for the replies.

things for wings, thank you for your concern. it is my hedgehog who has cancer. thankfully it is not my chin. :thumbsup:

it is a relief to know she did not become ill prematurely. i was worried maybe she got sick at a young age. that's one less thing i will have to feel guilty about. :dance3:

i am not sure whether it is scc. (the vet probably mentioned it, but i was so distracted/emotional at the time, i was not paying close attention.) the lump is very bony and hard, and is on her jawline/neck area.

i finally broke down and got the arginine. but i am having a bit of a problem with the fish oil. if i only give her afew drops, what do i do with the rest of it? just throw the capsule away?

also, itchy is now spoiled. she is reluctant to eat much except canned cat food (which she gobbles with reckless abandon, thereby getting it all over herself, her sister, and their habitat. :laughitup: ) what kind of canned cat foods are healthiest for her? i currently have her on iams proactive health. i know that may not be the best, but i tried this in a pinch and she absolutely loves it. if anyone has any better ideas for low fat, low carb, high protein canned cat food, i am open to suggestions.

any advice on this?

 

[Kalandra]

I keep the oil capsules in the fridge after punching a hole in it and it seems to keep for an extra day or two just fine. I figure they sell this stuff in bottles so a capsule that is kept cold is probably going to be fine too. Plus those darn capsules tend to need to be repunched after they get cold.

When I was looking for dry foods for Rose I did a lot of web searching for grain-free foods. Many of these dry foods also produce grain-free/low-carb canned foods. I haven't tried any of them yet as Rose eats her kibble fine.